sneak peek at my upcoming dao project - input requested - jian added

crimsonfalcon07

crimsonfalcon07

Joined
Dec 27, 2010
Messages
6,852
Obviously still refining and so forth, and the handle and so forth is temporary, of course. This is my most ambitious sword project to date, and VERY challenging for an amateur like myself. As you can see, I listened to your feedback, since nobody seemed to like the straighter edges of my previous guard. This time I went for a simple curved guard. It's going to be pinned on, like normal bolsters, and I'm going to be using brass, because I'm dumb, and can't find any 3/8" steel for sale, and damascus is prohibitively expensive, and I would have to use mosaic pins to hold it on. I've also modified the pommel shape, and curvature of the handle to something more aesthetically pleasing to my eye.



This one is 36" OAL, with a 28.5" blade. It's made from CPM 3V. I ground this one down freehand without jigs, and as you can imagine, that was a challenge, as was grinding in fullers that long with my angle grinder. I've also never experimented with guards and bolsters before, so hopefully I got a good portion of mistakes out on this one before I put on the real ones. I got the balance point about 2" up from the guard by using 3/16" thick steel spacers, but that made the whole blade pretty ridiculously heavy. So I'm scrapping that, and will just use the brass guard to weight it, and hope that the balance works out okay so it will still be fast enough. I may also try to throw in some 1/8" liners so I can practice my file work some more, and get the balance to work a bit better.

As this blade is quite experimental, I'd appreciate any feedback you have thus far, recognizing that the fit and finish is still VERY rough, and I'll be using pinned construction for the scales and guard, with brass fittings and oregon maple burl for the scales. I'll be putting a convex edge on this after HT (which will be done by Peters, and I'm thinking 60 RC unless there's a good reason not to, since that's theoretically the ideal HT for 3V).

Specifically, where would you want the POB on a blade this long (think katana length, but obviously a wider blade), and how much would you sacrifice overall weight characteristics for an ideal POB? I ask because it's VERY heavy in the handle, and feels like a smallish bar bell in hand. Most of my actual dao swords are quite forward balanced, and it's becoming clear to me why. Thanks for looking!
 
Last edited:
As a thought 60 RC is too hard for a sword blade typically. You want something that can absorb shock, historical norms were far lower than 60, typically in the 35-45 range.
 
See, that's the thing with 3V, is that it's supposed to be a superb shock absorbing steel, so it can take a higher RC and still retain the toughness it's known for. I just don't know what RC to request for a blade that long, since it's 3 times longer than what most people do.
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
See, that's the thing with 3V, is that it's supposed to be a superb shock absorbing steel, so it can take a higher RC and still retain the toughness it's known for. I just don't know what RC to request for a blade that long, since it's 3 times longer than what most people do.
Click to expand...

I couldn't really say, I just know that historically that's too hard, maybe this steel can overcome that. I guess there's one way to know for sure.
 
Yup. I think where I'm at, since there don't seem to be many makers who work with CPM 3V in this kind of length, is consult with Brad at Peters and see what he thinks. I'm now leaning towards closer to 58 RC, from Crucible's spec sheet.
 
60 also seems a bit high to me from what I have read. I would think low 50's would be more appropriate. But then again 3V is a fancy modern steel.

I prefer a balance point about 3-4" in front of the guard. I have handled a dao once however and the balance was quite blade heave.

Do you have any distal taper in the blade, a sword really requires that to keep it from handling like a crowbar. Also I would recommend a larger guard if possible, it is rather small and would aid in balance.

Using metal bolsters on the pommel would also aid in balance.

Best of luck
 
I did grind in some distal taper. I can't do a longer guard because they don't sell the steel that wide, and I'm not ready to start experimenting with stick tangs and that sort of guard. I agree with the bolsters on the pommel idea. I may end up doing that if the balance doesn't seem right.
 
How heavy is the sword? I don't do any sort of kung fu broadsword forms, but the similar sized one-hand cutting blades I've liked all came in between 4" and 6" for the POB. If the weight of the whole blade is 3 lbs. or less, I would not mind more weight towards the blade to help give it some presence. If it is 3 lbs. (or more :eek:) I'd want to keep the weight closer to the hilt.
 
I honestly have no way of weighing it. So I don't know. With the extra 3/8" spacers it's a lot heavier than I'd like. I suspect it's probably more than 3 pounds, because that's about what your average katana weighs, and this one has a lot more metal in the blade, distal taper or not.

I will definitely post up more pics when I finish it, and thanks for the interest!
 
Considering how long you want it, maybe extand the handle abit for a 2hand option? Bastardsword ish :P
 
Looks great! Since 3v is tough stuff you could focus on reducing blade weight as much as possible by more distal taper, file work to the spine, widening the fullers, etc. That will give you more leeway in terms of guard and pommel weighting so it doesn't feel like a barbell.
 
You've done a great job with the blade. Clearly, that blade shape will make the sword fairly blade heavy, and that's just something to be expected. You did a real good job on the fullers, I know what a PITA they can be. Here's a few thoughts for you to consider. You could take the current handle off, and put a new, extended habdle on without modifying the tang. A two hand, or one and a half handle would counter the tip heaviness. You could also go for a single guard, cut a 1/4" shallow slot in the bottom, slip your guard in and attach with two pins. Once sanded and buffed, the pins would be almost invisible.

You have a lot of talent, and should share your work with the guys in shoptalk to get more ideas.

I don't know if this is the kind of input you were asking for, and if not, no offense is meant.
 
Thanks for the feedback! It was definitely a challenge to grind a blade that long free-hand. Makes me want to invest in some jigs, to be honest. And I should probably stop doing fullers with my angle grinder :) I just don't really understand how the tool works for scraping them in.

As for handle length, it may not look it, but that handle is actually long enough to fit two hands, if you've got medium size hands like myself. I may experiment on the next blade with making the handle a bit longer, since there are several people out there with much longer hands than myself.
 
Grinding a 26" inch blade is one heck'ofa feat. One thought, if the steel is in an annealed state when you are working it, a dremel or die grinder with stone attachments can be used to do absolutely perfect fullers. using an angle grinder is, as you know, a somewhat dangerious operation.

How are you going to heat treat and temper such a long blade?
 
I don't have the equipment to attempt the heat treat (or the gumption, for that matter), but fortunately for me, Peters does 3V up to 40+ inches, and already has protocols for sword length blades thanks to Dan Keffeler. So I'll send it to the experts.

I hadn't thought about using my dremel. That sounds like that might be a good way to clean it up, although the angle grinder is relatively fast at least. I'll experiment with that. Hadn't thought about that at all. How would you go about it? Use a circular tip and a guide?
 
Figured out the final balance, and got the handle and guards and pommel roughed out, using screws to attach. Handle scales are from a gorgeous piece of maple burl from Burl Source. Balance point is 5" exactly up from the guard. At this point you can get a better idea of what it will look like when completed.





The shape will change a bit once the scales are epoxied on permanently and the pins are in, so I can shape the areas currently covered by the screws, but it's starting to come together!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top