Snow Shelter Sleeping (and last night's slumber)

Joezilla

Moderator- Wilderness and Survival Skills
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Part of the Put up or Shut up campaign,
and MOTIVATION FOR YA'LL TO PARTICIPATE IN:


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=700030&highlight=SHELTER+snow+contest

Jack Frost came again, and re-transformed my new abode into a winter wonderland. The locals say it hasn’t snowed this bad in 10 years, we must have brought it with us. The new house I live in is fantastic, but since I’ve moved in (less than a month now) with the new wife (mental note: Never introduce your wife as “your first wife”), I have not been able to crash outside yet. With the 18 inches of snow freshly bedded down Friday night, I had the urge to go outside and “play”. I decided to try out snow cave construction skills. I have not built and slept in a Snow cave for about 10 years, yet I’ve learned a lot since then about the intricacies of the white crystalline boogers that pour from the sky.

The first step was piling up the snow. Luckily, I had the fortunate happenstance of a whole driveway full. So while I busily scraped the drive way, the better half though I was diligently working. Piling up snow, lightly packing, piling up again, I worked until I had a roughly 6 foot dome. I let the snow set up and sit for roughly 2 hours, then went to digging it out. Now I tried to plan where I wanted to enter properly, and about where the tip of the shelter would be. Tunneling like a rabbit, with a combination of combing the inside with my waterproof gloves, I hollowed out a shelter 6 feet wide and about 3 and ½ feet height. It is a large area to heat up but I wanted to be able to fit more than person in there. I packed snow on the ground of about a foot, and used the cold steel trail hawk (thanks Sergeant Josh!) to chisel out any ice that was on the ground. I poked three breathing holes about the diameter of a tennis ball, and one for the candle on the far side and the others for me. A dome shape with high walls is necessary to alleviate dripping while the snow melts, when you sleep. You are in a snow shelter already, You want to be as comfy as possible.

I brought a thermometer in with me. I used my Big Agnes pad, with a Advanced medical survival cloth (shiny side up) to reflect heat in, and cozied up in my 0 degree bag, on a snow platform a little higher than the rest of the front of the cave (to create a heat sink)
I brought a thermometer in with an alarm to get temperature readings at night. Inside the Snow cave, it stayed about 27 degrees at the points where I checked it, into to the coldest portions of the night. The temperature outside at the coldest portion of the night was 7 degrees F.
When the snow starts melting and I am finally done with Frankensteining it, I'll cut in in half so you can see the shelving and setup.


Things I learned:
It is almost impossible to photograph the inside of a snow shelter correctly, especially with all your gear in it.
Don’t let dogs inside it if you have a choice. They like to modify the architecture.
You will get wet.
I want this
http://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Igloo-Other-Shelters/dp/0393732150/ref=pd_sim_sg_3
And this
http://www.grandshelters.com/icebox-igloo.html


We will be getting more snow in this week. I hope to experiment with small elevated cooking fires in the shelter to see how the smoke rises.



DSCF2585.jpg

Opening. You are looking at the small potion that gradually builds up.

DSCF2588.jpg

First wall

DSCF2595.jpg

DSCF2580.jpg

Rough outline.
DSCF2589.jpg

Halfway dug

DSCF2600.jpg


Up in the morning, with a WONDERFUL gift from a friend.

PS: It gets internet too!
 
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That's great, Joe. It looks like a lot of fun.

I want to try one, too, just as soon a we get a heavy layer of snow here.:D
 
Hey Joe,

Got about a foot down here in Asheville and all I saw when I looked at my driveway was a lot of shoveling. You looked at yours and saw an opportunity to learn and practice.

That's why you are a rock star survival guy and I'm.... not.

Nice writeup! :thumbup:
 
Good stuff Joe!:thumbup:

Haven't seen one of those in a while!:D



I'm curious, have you noticed differences in heat when utilizing different lengths of entry tunnels?
 
I'm curious, have you noticed differences in heat when utilizing different lengths of entry tunnels?

Not yet, but I hope to get a temp gun very soon (ordering right now) and experiment with it. I'll see what happens. Precisely the kind of questions I would like to find out! Thanks
 
Thanks for bringing up the contest. I thought it was going to die a slow death. Come on guys get out and try a shelter. You might find out how fun winter camping is. Look at it this way, if you like cool gear this is the perfect opportunity get some new stuff. New sleeping bags, sleds, snow saw/knife, sleeping pads, wool clothes, the options for new stuff is limitless.
 
I'm curious, have you noticed differences in heat when utilizing different lengths of entry tunnels?

The most important thing in being warm in a snow shelter is that the top of the door being below where you want your warmth. Usually that is the level you sleep at but in really cold conditions (-30f or colder) it is nice to have the air warmer at the level your feet are.
The vent size used is important too, anything bigger than a golf ball and the snow shelter cools down.
The next biggest difference in warmth is made by stopping the air exchange through the door. This exchange is most pronounced in gusty winds. Even if your door is facing away from the wind, changing wind speeds change the barometric pressure outside the snow shelter in relation to inside and this pumps the air in and out.
A long tunnel would make this exchange slower but so does a door and it is very convenient to have a short tunnel for going in and out of the shelter.
A tunnel with a door would be the warmest.
 
especially if your bed is elevated above that level just a little bit. It creates a cold well for the cold air.
 
Looks like it would have been fun making one. To bad we have barely any snow here, and not looking like we are getting any more any time soon.
 
One of the biggest lessons I learned from years of making snow shelters is not to overheat them. 1 or 2 candles MAXIMUM..... otherwise the air becomes damp, you become damp and the cold works its way right through to your bones. Snow shelters just take the edge off the cold and make it bearable. Control the air exchange, create a coldwell, insulate yourself from the snow and you are all set.

Rick
 
Have you ever set the heat source higher than you were?
 
Not totally above my level but higher in the shelter. It's best to have the heatsource above the top of the door and even with the sleeping area.

Here is a quick drawing of the best design I've done so far... I've only done 8 that I can recall... and only 3 with good results... he he. This one is a keeper.

Snowshelter.jpg


I did a similar one for a group of Cub Scouts in 08 and spent a night in it (with only a wool blanketand a 4x6 tarp)... so did a Venture Scout the next night, I believe.

Digging in (proir to backfilling the entrance "tube")..
ss082.jpg


Still digging.... Joe is right... its tough to get a pic inside such a confined area...
ss083.jpg


Showing the kids the next morning. I arrived late the night before so the Cubs didn't realise that someone spent the night in the parkinglot snowbank. In fact they were playing on the mound after breakfast... not knowing what was under them.
ss08.jpg


Joe's idea about cutting it in half is awesome... I hope it holds together for you buddy. That would be a great educational tool.


Rick
 
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That would be a great educational tool.


Rick


Not so much. We had mixed freezing rain, leading to normal rain yesterday. It has held up, but it has ....deflated...a bit. It is supposed to snow again friday, So I may be able to do a round 2.

J
 
I hope to experiment with small elevated cooking fires in the shelter to see how the smoke rises.
Don't do it unless you have fresh Herring to smoke!

One of the biggest lessons I learned from years of making snow shelters is not to overheat them. 1 or 2 candles MAXIMUM..... otherwise the air becomes damp, you become damp and the cold works its way right through to your bones. Snow shelters just take the edge off the cold and make it bearable. Control the air exchange, create a coldwell, insulate yourself from the snow and you are all set.

Rick
Pics I posted of the snow shelter I built is now just a ring of snow. I never got to sleep in it.
 
G'day Joe

especially if your bed is elevated above that level just a little bit. It creates a cold well for the cold air.
It creates more than just a well for the cold air :thumbup:

Whenever I see "snow shelters" that have the person or persons sleeping at ground level, I'm reminded of a story about 4 Universities students over here who went cross country sking several years ago.

They overnighted in a snow shelter, with a vent hole and a door to retain the heat. They all slept at the bottom of the snow cave.

There was overnight snow whilst they slept that effectively sealed their entrance.

Their bodies were found after the spring thaw.

Coroners report concluded they had aspyxiated from the build up of Carbon dioxide at the bottom of the snow cave :thumbdn:

Carbon dioxide being heavier that just about all the common gases in our atmosphere, tends to accumulate at the lowest point.

Just something to consider when constructing a snow cave, especially if there is going to be more than one person in the cave :thumbup:




Kind regards
Mick
 
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My dad used to help me build them in our backyard in saskatoon. Let me sleep in them after inspection a few times.

he would take about 1 dozen 2.5 or 3 ft thin sticks and shove them through about 3ft high evenly spaced. Made it really easy to not overthin a wall and just leave them in.
Burned 2 candles in a coffee tin.

He did punch a black 2 in pvc pipe through the side as a vent in case of collapse as mentioned and mom told me he would check me every couple hours. He was an insomniac and never slept more than an hour at a time, lucky to get 3-4 hours a night.

This really takes me back, thanks for posting!!!
 
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