So, I want to try out Elmax...

C

cm_bushman

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Oct 22, 2012
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I've heard a lot about Elmax over the years, primarily about its toughness while retaining edges fairly well, but lately I've been researching and what I've found has really piqued my interest. It seems this steel is usually (in production blades) only hardened to about 58-59Rc, which makes it very tough, but "only" comparable to S30v in edge retention. From what I've read, proper heat treatment can take Elmax to 61-62Rc and at this level, it's on par with M4 and M390 in edge retention, and still as tough as S30v at 58-59Rc! I've always though of Elmax as a good steel, but if these claims are true, I would go out on a limb as to say it's likely one of the best EDC steels available today, due to it's price.

So I've been looking around for the last couple of days, and the Scrap Yard ELMAX has really caught my eye. 3.75" Elmax blade, .90" stock, 60-62HRC, .008-.010 behind the edge... It seems a great platform to test a steel like Elmax, and even on the secondary market, much more affordable than a custom. I also know of the Speedform II from Kershaw, which is even less expensive, but from what I've heard, Kershaw and even ZT run Elmax in the 50's HRc, and I would really like to see it at or above 60.

So, for those of you out there who have experience with Elmax and/or the Scrapyard ELMAX, what do you guys think? Is this a good introduction to the steel? Are there other knives you would recommend?
 
Just do not believes in advertising.

I ever had both ZT0561 and 0560, have used them both. I would say the steel wasn't any great at all. Elmax edge holding is far lower than my PM2 S30V. My friend who also bought and been used 0560 also felt the same as me.
 
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shqxk said:
Just do not believes in advertising.

I ever had both ZT0561 and 0560, have used them both. I would the steel wasn't any great at all. Elmax edge holding is far lower than my PM2 S30V. My friend who also bought and been used 0560 also felt the same as me.
Click to expand...

For whittling and wood working tasks, My Spyderco Mule team in Elmax has far better edge retention than the CPM S30V used in my Spyderco Woodcraft Mule. Plus the shape and grind of the Mule team is far more useful for that kind of work. On the other hand, I suspect when it comes to skinning and processing game, that the Woodcraft Mule would be superior. Again down to grind and shape more than the steels involved. Task & edge geometry have just as much influence on a knifes ability as the steel (assuming decent Heat Treat). "What is the task, this knife/steel is intended to perform?" is the important question you can ask. I doubt that when making a choice between a Rolls Royce and a Maybach, that the ability to get round the Nurburgring the quickest, features higher up the priority chain than the ability to fit 2 sets of golf clubs in the boot (Trunk).
 
Elmax is great stuff! One of my favorite stainless steels. It's edge retention is much better than the compared S30V and when you really push both steels the difference is quickly seen.

I've used my ZT in Elmax for several years now and have seen no issue with the steel, well.... It has convinced me to order a AD-10 with Elmax blade :D
 
I have a pair of ZT-0551's and a 0561 in ElMax. I also have several Benchmades in m390. They seem equivalent and slightly better at edge retention than S30V & S35VN. About like m390 and S35VN to re-edge - certainly less time consuming than S30V. The differences in all of them are marginal in use, although the S35VN seems easier to keep sharp. I'm pretty sure my examples are all <60 Rc. Not much help, huh?

Stainz
 
Though I don't have any experience with Bohler Elmax Steel, I've heard good thing about it.

Bark River, at the request of some customers, and with the support of a couple of dealer's, has an Elmax Gunny in the works.

Mike Stewart said: "I intend on using the Elmax at 60-61. My only real Concern is whether or not folks are going to be able to re-sharpen it. It appears to be massively abrasion resistant."

This should make for some interesting side by side testing, as this model is also available in CPM-3V and CPM-S35VN.




Big Mike
 
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I have never had a Elmax knife, although John Neeman Tools uses it so it ought to be good!
 
This is ELMAX at full hardness 60.5-61 HRC, Demko AD-10, Peters HT.

[video=youtube;2CpFcHl4Q7s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CpFcHl4Q7s[/video]
 
That's the video that made me place my order ^^
 
Ankerson I'm new to the forum (been lurking for a long time though), and I have to say I love your videos/reviews. Your edge retention/blade steel chart is pretty awesome as well. I referenced it for a long time. Just wanted to say I love your work.


EDIT: That Demko AD-10 makes me happy in my pants.
 
ELMAX is really awesome at 60-62 and is far superior to s30v at that hardness. At 58-60 it has very average edge retention but is extrordinarily tough for a stainless steel. I think at 59 RC ELMAX has similar toughness to a steel like O1 at about 60. It's some really awesome stuff and is probably the toughest high alloy stainless out there.
 
My experience with Elmax is the ZT 0560, which I believe is run between 60-62Rc. The steel has held up exceptionally well for me. I reprofiled the edge to 15 dps (degrees per side). Even under moderately hard use, the edge has held up well.

I think the sweet spot for edge retention is about 61.5. Toughness is falling off when you get into the 60s, but it's still a very tough steel.

These Bohler charts confirm what others have already said.

bohler-toughness.jpg

bohler-edge-retention.jpg
 
Big Mike said:
Mike Stewart said: "I intend on using the Elmax at 60-61. My only real Concern is whether or not folks are going to be able to re-sharpen it. It appears to be massively abrasion resistant."
Click to expand...

Anyone who's accustomed to sharpening 3V, S35VN, etc at similar hardnesses should have no trouble with Elmax.

KalEl said:
ELMAX is really awesome at 60-62 and is far superior to s30v at that hardness. At 58-60 it has very average edge retention but is extrordinarily tough for a stainless steel. I think at 59 RC ELMAX has similar toughness to a steel like O1 at about 60. It's some really awesome stuff and is probably the toughest high alloy stainless out there.
Click to expand...

I concur. It's really good stuff.
 
That video just reaffirms my desire to try out Elmax! Unfortunately, I can't afford an AD-10, so I'm looking for something in a lower price bracket. As far as folders go, I think the ZT0561 is one of the most beautiful knives out there, but it's just too big and too expensive, so I'm very excited for the 0566. I don't think I'd go for the Speedform II, I can't justify buying a knife I don't like to look at. With either model though, I always come back to two points:

A.) I already have a great folder, namely my LE M4 Mini-Grip, and I'm pretty content, especially since it's an AXIS knife over a frame/liner lock; and

B.) The stated hardness range on Kershaw/ZT's ELMAX is reported to be 59-62, which seems pretty wild, as the performance difference in 59Rc and 62Rc is by all accounts a huge one. If this is the case, I know I could luck out and get a 61-62 HRc blade, but then again I'm far more likely to get a knife on the low side and be lumped in with all of the past ZT owners who have complained about so-so edge holding.

So, I'm really looking for a good fixed blade, and since I wanted to try ELMAX out after reading a few very positive threads and some hard specs, I thought a Scrapyard ELMAX would be a great, more affordable (than custom, since I've not really seen anything comparable in production) option that had great reviews of it's own. Can anyone vouch for it or recommend a similar option?

Of course, if this falls through, there's always M390....
 
I picked up a pair of the Scrapyard Elmax knives (about 70-75 each) for kitchen duty. Knife performs as expected, a razor. I use a ceramic stick to touch it up occasionally and it is my go to knife in kitchen. With such thin stock, I've not taken it out for anything.
 
Gravelface, would you be afraid to take them out in the great wide open? I've read they're something like .9" stock, which did have me worried, but I only have folders to compare it to really and .90" is a pretty average thickness.
 
The worst threads on BF are ones on steel, where someone takes 2 different brands and knife shapes and compares steel.

the only way too compare steel is:

same blade shape and thickness
the same edge, grind and sharpness
same heat treat, for puprose, is it high edge holding or mix of toughness and edge holding or is it for sharpness.

put a japanese grind on $300 german knife or german grind on $300 japanese knife, chef/cooking, you find my chicago cuttery just as good.

i would accept, as valid, if the test includes at least:

one has the same knife 0551 vs 0550
with a variety of tests not just rope cutting - who cuts only rope?
cut some meat
cut some cardboard
cut some aluminum cans

the measure the tip and loss of steel, you need measure the blade tip before and after and analyze photos.

unless, someone uses knife everyday and does a lot of the same tasks, as we can see from this thread - some say it is better then cpm some say not. I wish i knew?

KalEl said:
ELMAX is really awesome at 60-62 and is far superior to s30v at that hardness. At 58-60 it has very average edge retention but is extrordinarily tough for a stainless steel. I think at 59 RC ELMAX has similar toughness to a steel like O1 at about 60. It's some really awesome stuff and is probably the toughest high alloy stainless out there.
Click to expand...
is this based on knife making, testing or research? short term testing or long term? i am very curious not being a smart azz
 
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