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So I'm a little confused on the difference of survival and bushcraft knives,
- Thread starter Cackmandu
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Marketing.
Becker, Mora to name a couple. What do you consider reasonably priced?
Becker, Mora to name a couple. What do you consider reasonably priced?
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"survival" and to a lesser extent "Bushcraft" are marketing terms. They don't mean much of anything. Especially "survival". Can a "bushcraft" knife not be used for survival situations? Can a "survival" knife not be used for bushcraft? Can a "harduse" knife not be used lightly?
Take the knife for the merits it has and see if those merits will accomplish what you will actually want to do with the knife. Marketing terms are meaningless. Look at the specs of the knife not the marketing.
Take the knife for the merits it has and see if those merits will accomplish what you will actually want to do with the knife. Marketing terms are meaningless. Look at the specs of the knife not the marketing.
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Another term that's commonly used for knives in the "survival" and "bushcraft" category are "utility knives". They all mean about the same thing . . . typically short-bladed (4" to 6") fixed-blade belt knives. From 6" to 8" you get into the "camp knives" category and above that you're into "choppers".
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As others have said marketing is a big factor. I think it also has a lot to do with specific needs vs hypothetical needs. I think bushcraft has a greater focus on measured cuts, carving wood and preserving your tools for either the next leg of your journey or your next trip. As a result bushcraft knives tend not to be too big and are often quite minimalist. In contrast survival knives tend to be a bit broader in perceived use, and designed with a certain amount of improvised use in mind (eg digging, batoning, fighting off or otherwise killing animals etc).
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Yep. Those are perfectly good definitions as well.
As you can see, Cackmandu, there are no hard and fast rules and there's lots of room for interpretation. Stick around, listen to how the terms are used, develop definitions that work for you and you'll be fine.
As you can see, Cackmandu, there are no hard and fast rules and there's lots of room for interpretation. Stick around, listen to how the terms are used, develop definitions that work for you and you'll be fine.
Last edited:
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Those are marketing terms.
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Though they are both marketing terms, "bushcraft," and "survival" generally describe two competing schools of thought on knife construction, albeit with a significant area of overlap.
Boiled down, the differences are primarily found on two points. So called "survival blades" are almost universally full tang constructed and generally trend towards .25" stock. Most, but by no means all, survival knives also tend to be above 4" in length. Ability to take abuse is one of the foremost attributes desired in a survival knife.
"Bushcraft" knives are generally around 4-5" in length max. It's okay if they are hidden tang, and they are generally made from thinner stock. Wood processing is the general forte of the breed and many of them are Scandi or convex ground to aid in this task, or are full flat ground, compromising the ultimate strength of a saber grind or some blade thickness to increase cutting utility.
And like I said, there are several well regarded "survival" knives that trend smaller and thinner, like the Fallkniven F1 and the ESEE3, and there are bushcraft style blades, such as leukus, that trend larger.
So, I guess though they are both ultimately marketing buzzwords, they each do have some loose concept behind them.
Boiled down, the differences are primarily found on two points. So called "survival blades" are almost universally full tang constructed and generally trend towards .25" stock. Most, but by no means all, survival knives also tend to be above 4" in length. Ability to take abuse is one of the foremost attributes desired in a survival knife.
"Bushcraft" knives are generally around 4-5" in length max. It's okay if they are hidden tang, and they are generally made from thinner stock. Wood processing is the general forte of the breed and many of them are Scandi or convex ground to aid in this task, or are full flat ground, compromising the ultimate strength of a saber grind or some blade thickness to increase cutting utility.
And like I said, there are several well regarded "survival" knives that trend smaller and thinner, like the Fallkniven F1 and the ESEE3, and there are bushcraft style blades, such as leukus, that trend larger.
So, I guess though they are both ultimately marketing buzzwords, they each do have some loose concept behind them.
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I think the confusing part is not about which blade is more suitable for what situation, but how different people perceive what the term 'survival' and 'bushcraft' are, and what they really do need in reality.
To me, survival is about finding rescue in an unwilling, emergency or even possibly life-threatening situation, ideally within the first 72 hours time frame.(It could be being loss in the wild, nature disaster, injury, etc). Bushcraft is the study and practice of wilderness skill to sustain life and thrive in an outdoor environment, which includes firecraft, shelter-building, hunting(or ways to procure and process food), cordage skill, etc.
No doubt there will be areas that will overlap, but the tools/skills may or may not be entirely the same. For example, having and understanding how your personal location beacon works could be vital in an outdoor survival situation, but it may not be the main interest when practicing bushcraft.
To me, survival is about finding rescue in an unwilling, emergency or even possibly life-threatening situation, ideally within the first 72 hours time frame.(It could be being loss in the wild, nature disaster, injury, etc). Bushcraft is the study and practice of wilderness skill to sustain life and thrive in an outdoor environment, which includes firecraft, shelter-building, hunting(or ways to procure and process food), cordage skill, etc.
No doubt there will be areas that will overlap, but the tools/skills may or may not be entirely the same. For example, having and understanding how your personal location beacon works could be vital in an outdoor survival situation, but it may not be the main interest when practicing bushcraft.
Now I'm really confused j/k, in and around the $100 range!
I m in agreement with what has been posted here.
My take is that
The american saw teeth survival knives
Was more of a fad unnaturally spawned by hollywood dramatics.
I don't know if it was based upon the military concept of survival.
Which btw, had different knives to suit particular mission requirements.
Unlike civillian bushcraft knives which were built and based upon years of actual fieldcrat experiences and preferences
It was Promoted by the brits as a more refined and sensible type of field knife.
Problem was there had to be a particular blade styling to fit these terms correctly.
But somewhere between rambo and bear grylls
Marketing and popular media ignorance had blurred the differences.
To an extend that no distinction remains.
It has become an interchangeable term
Even more so with the demise of the popularity of sawbacks ages ago.
Imho, the terms, survival and bushcraft
Would generally be taken to mean
As describing the purpose or an action
To forage or live off the land.
Rather than to mean a particular form of knife type.
Thru adding the word "knife" as some form of suffix.
When it comes to choosing such an expedition knife,
Every terrain would have ts own form of challenges.
And something built to fit temperate regions
Might not be entirely ideal in the dense tropics.
Or wetlands or a desert.
Be careful not to fall for colorful descriptive terms.
When Your survival might actually have to depend on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushcraft
My take is that
The american saw teeth survival knives
Was more of a fad unnaturally spawned by hollywood dramatics.
I don't know if it was based upon the military concept of survival.
Which btw, had different knives to suit particular mission requirements.
Unlike civillian bushcraft knives which were built and based upon years of actual fieldcrat experiences and preferences
It was Promoted by the brits as a more refined and sensible type of field knife.
Problem was there had to be a particular blade styling to fit these terms correctly.
But somewhere between rambo and bear grylls
Marketing and popular media ignorance had blurred the differences.
To an extend that no distinction remains.
It has become an interchangeable term
Even more so with the demise of the popularity of sawbacks ages ago.
Imho, the terms, survival and bushcraft
Would generally be taken to mean
As describing the purpose or an action
To forage or live off the land.
Rather than to mean a particular form of knife type.
Thru adding the word "knife" as some form of suffix.
When it comes to choosing such an expedition knife,
Every terrain would have ts own form of challenges.
And something built to fit temperate regions
Might not be entirely ideal in the dense tropics.
Or wetlands or a desert.
Be careful not to fall for colorful descriptive terms.
When Your survival might actually have to depend on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushcraft
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For that budget, check out knives by Becker, Ontario, ESEE and maybe DPX (they're a bit pricier I think). The Becker BK2 is a pretty decent outdoors knife and can be found for less than $100. If you want a bigger blade, go BK7 or BK9, or if you want a thinner stock one, check out the BK10 or the other Becker tweens. Also check Mora and Marttiini, they're not as heavy duty as the Beckers or ESEEs, but are still very capable knives and have been used for generations for "bushcraft" type activities.
BMCGear
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Was bushcraft originally a marketing term? Or was it used as a marketing term once companies saw it's popularity?
A bushcraft knife is usually a shorter knife in my mind (5 inches max; usually 4 or so) that usually features carbon steel, a scandi grind (sometimes flat), and a very ergonomic handle so that it can be used for carving things like spoons, cups, bowls, and fine trap work.
A bushcraft knife is usually a shorter knife in my mind (5 inches max; usually 4 or so) that usually features carbon steel, a scandi grind (sometimes flat), and a very ergonomic handle so that it can be used for carving things like spoons, cups, bowls, and fine trap work.
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Since getting a Fallkniven A1 the terms "bushcraft" and "survival" have become meaningless because I feel I can handle any situation that I might come across. It's nice to have a really sharp 1/4" pry bar with me. For your price point I'd look at the knives that Becker and ESSE offers. I go by which knife feels good in my hand as my first consideration.
My take...
"Survival" knives are knives that sort of look like this.
That's an old USAF Pilot Survival knife. Like most military knives, they were made to spec by several different makers. Ontario and Camillus I think both made them. There may be other knives that carried the word "survival" in them that predated this but I think this is the prototypical image of a knife that was literally designed with idea of a) fighting your way out of a cockpit and then b) surviving where ever you got dropped in a mixture of living off the land and killing enemy combatants. One can draw a line from that narrative to the current survival/prepper type narrative.
"Bushcraft" knives are knives that sort of look like this.
The guy who's holding that knife is Mors Kochanski. Kochanski wrote this book, which is really responsible for putting the term "bushcraft" into the lexicon and with it, the concept of a bushcraft knife.
In the book, Kochanski describes a set of criteria for choices of a "survival knive" (whoa there, Nelly!! Did you catch that? Nobody called bushcraft knives bushcraft knives when Kohanski wrote his book "Bushcraft" because nobody was really using the term "bushcraft" prior to Kochanski's book.)
Anyway, if you squint, or if you read his book or check out his YouTube videos, you'll see that what Kochanski is describing is basically a traditional Scandanvian Puuko, although other designs fit the criteria too. Roughly 4" blade, tip in center line of handle, upsweep to cutting edge, no guard and a grip that allows for multiple holds.
"Survival" knives are knives that sort of look like this.
That's an old USAF Pilot Survival knife. Like most military knives, they were made to spec by several different makers. Ontario and Camillus I think both made them. There may be other knives that carried the word "survival" in them that predated this but I think this is the prototypical image of a knife that was literally designed with idea of a) fighting your way out of a cockpit and then b) surviving where ever you got dropped in a mixture of living off the land and killing enemy combatants. One can draw a line from that narrative to the current survival/prepper type narrative.
"Bushcraft" knives are knives that sort of look like this.
The guy who's holding that knife is Mors Kochanski. Kochanski wrote this book, which is really responsible for putting the term "bushcraft" into the lexicon and with it, the concept of a bushcraft knife.
In the book, Kochanski describes a set of criteria for choices of a "survival knive" (whoa there, Nelly!! Did you catch that? Nobody called bushcraft knives bushcraft knives when Kohanski wrote his book "Bushcraft" because nobody was really using the term "bushcraft" prior to Kochanski's book.)
Anyway, if you squint, or if you read his book or check out his YouTube videos, you'll see that what Kochanski is describing is basically a traditional Scandanvian Puuko, although other designs fit the criteria too. Roughly 4" blade, tip in center line of handle, upsweep to cutting edge, no guard and a grip that allows for multiple holds.
Near as I can tell, knives that are marketed as "bushcraft" knives are usually 4 inches or so, fairly light, with a shape aimed primarily at working with wood, ie, making feather sticks, notches, whittling, etc. They don't usually look "aggressive". Whereas those marketed as "survival" knives, generally speaking, tend to be a little thicker and heavier, a little longer(5.5 inches or more), with a somewhat more "weaponized" shape(spear point/clip point, possibly with a sharpened swedge) and possible additions like a guard, serrations, sawbacks, or steel pommels for use as hammers, etc.
This list obviously isn't comprehensive, and there are exceptions to everything, but generally speaking, the marketing seems to go pretty much as I described when it comes to "bushcraft" vs "survival".
This list obviously isn't comprehensive, and there are exceptions to everything, but generally speaking, the marketing seems to go pretty much as I described when it comes to "bushcraft" vs "survival".
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Yeah, as everyone said before, a "survival" knife implies that it may be used for both outdoors work and fighting hordes of zombies/bears/communists, while a "bushcraft" knife is mostly oriented towards outdoors work. There's also hollow-handled survival knives, check out the Boker Plus Apparo for a good example of a mass-produced one.
The more I read and learn, the more I think the distinction between "bushcraft" and "survival" knife is way overblown. Get a good solid knife and get out and start using it. Here is a link to what is certainly my favorite thread on this board. It's a bit of a read but super educational with lots of pics demonstrating use. I don't think he was overly concerned about the knife not being a dedicated this or that knife. It's a guy with good skills who is a user, not a poser like me ;-)
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1300572-Dog-s-Head-Utility-The-First-Thirty-Days
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1300572-Dog-s-Head-Utility-The-First-Thirty-Days