So is there a better all around production folder than the BM 710 Axis or what?

O

Oregon Duck

Joined
Sep 21, 1999
Messages
137
The more I handle and use the BM 710 BT Axis lock the more and more impressed I become with it.

The virtues:

Slick action
Easy Opening
Tough & simple to clean lock
Really good blade with a recurve
Nice scales
Fully ambidextrious
Tip up carry
Reasonable price for a really tough knife
Well backed by the factory

The vices:

It is a little large.
No tip down carry for those who like such things.
No M2 version--yet.
Not as strong as the Rolling Lock (but not as complex.)
Unknown lock endurance. (All of its owners are guinea pigs on this one.)

I have owned a lot of folders in my day. I can't recall one where I got a better return on investment. For about $100 I have a knife that I may have happily paid possibly $200+ for. If you take Microtech's lack of equivalency and higher prices into account as an example, the BM 710 is a steal and IMHO the best production folder yet.

If you can think of a better one, (here comes the triple the price Sebenzation Jihad), name the knife and offer to the forum exactly why, in your opinion, your favorite knife is a better knife, or a better value as a knife.

I can hardly wait to hear, "But it's an investment." Hah, I actually use my knives w/o regard to their resale value. If you want to discuss objets-du-art, take it to the collector's forum. I would like us to discuss only knives that will be put through their paces without worrying about scratches and breakage.

Let's have it!



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Real artists ship--Steve Jobs
 
The Axis really is hard to beat. But it's kind of plain looking. If it came out with a liner-lock no one would have given it a second look. So I'm waiting for the next Benchmade with the axis lock to come out.

The best production folder? Speed-Tech.

Everything Axis has, it's got. The button lock, though not as sophisticated, works just as well. The size is just right. Ergonomics is perfect. And, it has "style".

I'm not knocking the Axis, it's the best thing to come along for quite a while. But as far as being *THE* best, not so fast.
 
I like the 710 a lot. i think it's the best Benchmade since the AFCK. But here are my feeelings regarding it as "best." This is copied from another thread:

Military vs. 710:

Steel - 440V beats ATS-34 in edge-holding and ability to take a fine edge by a longshot. ATS-34 is the teensiest bit more rust resistant. At the relative hardness of these two blades (440V at ~56RC, ATS-34 at 60RC) I expect the 440V to be tougher.

Blade - I love the 710's recurve but dislike the saber flat-grind in 1/8". The Military has a full flat-grind from 5/32" stock - strong and excellent geometry. Military offers plain or serrated. 710 has only plain or combo. I prefer the Military.

Opening method - Can't beat the hole. period.

Lock - Here's where I'm gonna get fried. The Military's liner-lock is smooth, easy to open
and close one-handed, rock-solid, will take more weight than I'd ever put on it, and should it fail it will jam the blade OPEN. I could ask for nothing more. The Axis is even stronger, but who cares? 10x too strong is no better than 5x. If it should fail, it will allow the blade to close. Action is stiffer than the Military, and the locks I've seen occaisionally bind and one even fails to engage. Also I have concerns about crud getting trapped in the enclosed spring area. My vote goes to the Military unreservedly.

Handle - Folks describe the 710 as a very comfortable knife. I disagree entirely. the palm swell is too far back, and the front finger groove far too shallow and gradual. the knife only "fits" my hand when I hold it very far back, with the butt resting against my palm. I like the Military's pronounced forward grip and also appreciate the choil for choking up, an option the 710 doesn't have.

Looks - A subjective area, I admit. But if anyone thinks the Military is prettier than the 710, I'll smack them silly The 710 is gorgeous. The Military is, well... somewhere
between hideous and "beautifully functional." The hole is an acquired taste.


I'm copying my thoughts into this thread 'cause they didn't provoke quite the debate I expected. C'mon, you 710 fans, prove me wrong!

-Drew
 
how's about the Mel Pardue Axis 720.
for me, it's a better size package, the handle is more stylish and the knife is ultra smooth. The clip may not be ambidexterous however, luckily, I am.
 
The Speedtech and the Pardue Axis do not have perfect ergonomics. If they did they would be usable by either hand with equal facility.

Some people think of a lack of full & true ambidexterity in a knife design to be a "lefty" issue, and to some extent it is. Not so fast.

My brother is right handed and a cop in Oakland California. He carries a folding knife (I can't remember what it is) in his left front pocket.

What gives with a righty carrying left-handed?

It is quite simple. He is a right-handed shot. He carries a pistol strongside already. His thinking is that if he *has to* pull that folder it is because his gun arm is in the grasp of a badguy or is somehow injured and unable to operate the pistol. His answer is a left hand draw on his last ditch knife.

He does not use a right handed *only* knife for this task and carry it backwards in his pocket. Whatever the heck his folder was when I saw him last was set up as a southpaw would have it.

That kind of flexibility is perfect ergonomics because it makes the knife more usable than it otherwise would be. The Speedtech and the Pardue Axis are actually of limited utility, giving one the option of only realistically clipping it on the right side of one's body somewhere.

Besides, not only is the Speedtech's clip mountable only on one side, it is forever upside down. IMHO, tip down carry is inferior because it requires a shift in grip to employ the knife. Every Spyderco I have ever seen has an upside down clip too. I also would not trade a small and very arguable "upgrade" in blade steel for a definite downgrade back to a liner lock, no matter who makes it. Also, from what I have read, (as I have not broken mine) I understood the Axis would break its lock into the open position only. Am I wrong?

For $250 Speedtech can do a lot better in order to be called the best production folder.



------------------
Real artists ship--Steve Jobs
 
The 710 is a great knife. If it works for you then that's great. If a Military works for Drew, then to him it's the better knife. Same goes for the Synergy. It's all a matter of taste.

For me, it's my sebenza. I own a 705 and when I got it, I knew I was getting a good knife. I expected certain things and it met those expectations. My sebenza is still in my pocket and will stay in my pocket for a long time to come. You can say, the sebenza is a 300 dollar knife and so a 710 is better because it's 3 times cheaper. Well to me my sebenza is worth much more than three times the worth of my 705.

Just my 2 cents.

-Johnny
 
Quothe Drew: "Opening method - Can't beat the hole. period."

I may have agreed with this a month ago before I finally started carrying a 710 to work. If anything beats the hole it`s the Axis lock, in my opinion. It`s a quick opener that takes very little skill to master and I find the Axis lock gives me a more secure feeling (and this is only a feeling, I don`t have data to back it up...) than any liner lock.

How would I improve the 710?

1. better steel
2. nicer scales, like micarta or CF
3. no thumbstud, maybe a disc-like impression in the blade like Ti Knives.
4. thinner, flat ground blade

Just my opinion......
 
Although I prefer a hole to a stud, I find my 705 one of the easiest opening knives I own. Since there is no liner to ride on the blade as you open it, the side to side friction opposing the opening of the blade is very minimal. I think the friction caused by the axis lock is more evenly distributed and therefore, reduced. And if you use the lock itself to open the blade, opening is near-friction free.

------------------
Hoodoo

Cogita tute

[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 30 October 1999).]
 
Just got a 710 axis and have spent the past few hours comparing it to my Military.

The 710 is the most beautiful folder I own but it won't see as much use as the Military.

I have already found that the Military handle is more pleasing to my hand. I use the extra length and the blade/handle angle give more leverage in the draw cuts that are most typical in my use of a knife this size.

ptn
 
The 710 is an awesome knife. It has a ground breaking lock, an extremely cool blade, and great ergonomics. BEST production folder though? I'm kinda leaning toward the SpeedTech Synergy for its precision, ergonomics(apologies to lefties), and beauty. And then there is always the Sebenza, which is really hard to find fault with other than personal preference. And then there is value to be considered. The Outdoor Edge Impulse might be the best knife for the dollar available.
 
SpeedTech, SpeedTech, SpeedTech.

I keep hearing all of yopu say how hot these are, but I just am not that big a fan. I handled some at the '99 Blade show and wasn't too impressed. The thing looked like it was tightly built, but the handle was SLICK. For whatever reason, my hands were just a tad sweaty at the time, and I couldn't have imagined making a thrust with it! I don't know, they are kinda sexy and the QC appeared to be there, but I would take a SOCOM anyday. Maybe a Carnivour, AFCK, or Axis even.

BTW, I carry a large Sebenza now, and if you consider it production, it certainly has my vote. Is it worth 3X the price of a BM? To me......YES! A little overkill, but if I need it, it's there.

-Bart
 
I have to agree with Steve Harvey. If you are looking for the best bang for the buck in a folder under $100, the Outdoor Edge Impulse (retail $40)is quite possibly the best knife out there.

Ergonomics are fantastic, the clip allows the knife to sit very low in the pocket and is not even felt when being held due to its design, the 12C27 steel has been proven for years in other knives, there is no play in the blade and the action is very smooth.

There might be other knives around that have all of the above attributes, but not for the same money.

------------------
C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "
 
I've spent my entire adult life looking for the "perfect" pocket knife and I finially found it in the BM 710! I like the looks, feel, materials and QC. It's all a matter of personal preferance and price range-Iam not going to spend $300 for any knife. Before I bought my Axis I tried a Military and knew the first time I picked it up I didn't like it. I looked at several other popular knives in the general price range and was disappointed that I didn't like any of them either. As soon as I picked up the Axis and opened and closed it, I knew it was the one. Why buy knives for the pleasure we get from owning, using and holding them. The BM 710 is a great knife-it will do everything I want it to do and will last a very long time. Now if I can only find the perfect fixed blade!
 
Oregon Duck, I couldn't agree with you more about the 710BT. The only thing you LEFT out was "easy close". Just point up, pull back the lock bar and drop. I like the size and would like to see one a little larger. I have large hands. I can't wait to see what's next, maybe a ELISHEWITZ design? I hope you come to Knifeforums.com and say hi.


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RICK Left Handers Unite

[This message has been edited by RGRAY (edited 01 November 1999).]

[This message has been edited by RGRAY (edited 01 November 1999).]
 
I'll put it this way, I've chosen the 710 as a likely canidate to replace my XlTi that ate it prying open a door, since I can't seem to convince Buck to whomp me up a 560 with a BG42 blade, and with my uncertainty over this whole Y2K issue I'm kinda anxious to get a replacement as I won't neccesarily be able to make the navaja I want till after Doomsday, or maybe just plain ol' Jan. 1 2000, but you get the picture. Why take unnecessary risks?

Anyway, I played with one some time ago and I've now got one on order for evaluation.

As to what I think about the 710, I like the Axis lock way more than any liner, but less than the clasp lock. This is a fighting thing, as I've found liners to be a bit too willing to accidentaly disengage in general, and now that I've started trying to rehabilitate my left hand so I can fight in the ambas manos style, the problem's compounded.

I like the large(for a modern knife) drop pointed blade, and the way the upper bolster(?) forms sort of a gaurd, which is an absolute necessity. I also like how you can clean out the lockwork.

I would prefer titanium handles, a convex instead of concave edge, no pocket clip whatsoever(not even holes where screws went), and I would also lose that thumb ramp.

To my mind, the 560 has the nicest handle of any folder, custom or production, out there. I would change the blade steel and configuration of the clip and grind(flat instead of hollow), and I'd like to see it done with a modified clasp lock instead of lockback.

Since I won't be getting a knife like that for a long time, if ever, the 710 is NOT BAD...
 
i got my axis used here on bladeforums last week. i have carried it ever since. i love it. the tip-up clip is great, the blade shape is great, though it could be flat ground. i've fallen in love with spyderco holes, but this opens great for a thumbstud. close to knife nirvana, but i think it would feel better with the handle shape of the stryker. to me, it's the best we got for now, so i'll take it. and if anyone got one, used it a little and doesn't want it, email me!!! i'd definitely take another.
 
Lefties,
I don't own an axis-lock, but really want to get one. I plan on waiting to see and feel the Elishewitz Axis-lock. Allen was kind enough to email me and give me the good news that the thumbstud will be reversable. All we need now is a reversable clip and we're set.

~Mitch
 
About the bladehole idea,

The whole point of the Axis lock, according to marketing anyway, is strength. A bladehole removes a lot of metal from the blade, thus weakening it. Yeah, it's radious, but ultimately more steel is stronger.

To counteract that, you'd need a bladehump, which then reduces the 710's ability to pierce, which makes it less functional to me.

All this talk of bladehumps, holes, pocket clips, and thumbstuds is actualy vaguely pornographic. Like a #10 butt connector or self-tailing winch.
 
I don't buy it. A blade hole isn't going to give up that much strength in the blade. Put an AFCK style blade on the 710 and the lock, yes the mighty Axis Lock, is *still* going to fail before the blade deforms or breaks. The (softer) steel around the Axis bar is going give way long before the blade.

I'd vote for a blade hole. The only beef I have with my 710 is the thumbstud. It's just not a very secure opening device when working against the Axis Lock. Myabe I'm spoiled by the Spydercos, Ascent and AFCK's but I just don't feel as safe. Sorry, not a blade flicker either so don't even suggest it.
smile.gif


Jon
 
Oregon Duck...you're right on the mark!
If I would change anything on my 710 it
would be better access to the thumb stud -
like the cut-away portion of G-10 on the
Stryker. And I kinda like the Stryker's
disc a little better, also. In addition,
the 710 may be a little large for my utility
usage, so I'll probably have to get one of
BM's smaller axis models just to keep it
company!
 
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