So is there a better all around production folder than the BM 710 Axis or what?

Jackal · Nov 12, 1999

Now that BM has finally corrected the "bottoming out" problem, I'd easily pay $200 for the 710S Axis lock, IF Corduroy were to apply his "touch." It just needs carbon fiber or micarta. Maybe some file work?

-AR

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- AKTI Member ID# A000322

- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.

stjames · Nov 12, 1999

As my Grandfather used to say I believe it falls solidly in the "Or What" category.

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA

Scarman · Nov 12, 1999

I have to go with Corduroy on this one. I think the Military far exceeds the 710 in every respect.
I have to say I even think that aesthetically the Military is ahead of the 710...*Smack* oww, hey that hurt....alright who did that....?

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I can see how it might be possible for a man to look down upon the earth and be an atheist, but I cannot conceive how a man could look up into the heavens and say there is no God.
*Abraham Lincoln

Romans 1:20-22

Joe Talmadge · Nov 13, 1999

Wow, don't know how I missed this thread!

If I were thinking of the best production folders, I too would go with Speedtech and the Sebenza. I have little experience with Tinives, but I'd bet they're up there too.

But the Axis remains my favorite folder. It just puts everything together in a way I love. Here are some strong points:

1. The recurved blade performs astoundingly well. You will have to re-profile Benchmade's too-thick edge, but once that's done, this knife will outcut most other similar-sized folders in your collection.

2. Handle is very very comfortable, even for extended hard use.

3. Knife is very carryable due to great blade-to-handle ratio.

4. Ambidextrous, strong, RELIABLE lock.

5. Good production values.

All these points really add to each other. Between the ergonomic handle and high-performance blade, the thing can really really cut. Because it's very carryable, I can always have it with me. Because I trust the lock, I'm never afraid to use it. This is a hell of a knife, plain and simple.

A few responses to previous notes:

Oregon Duck:
>Not as strong as the Rolling Lock (but not as complex.)

A few points on this. First, does anyone have any evidence that this is the case? As far as I can tell, no one has tested the two knives in the exact same machine, head-to-head. In any case, the Axis is so strong that worrying that some other lock might be "stronger" seems kind of silly. The Axis is strong enough to meet all my needs, so now I look for other locking features that I care about, like is it ambidextrous (axis is, rolling lock isn't yet), is it reliable (both locks are, but axis has fail-safed the spring and rolling lock hasn't), is it smooth in use (axis is, rolling lock isn't yet)?

--

I like Cord's Military vs. 710 analysis, here's my take:

Blade steel: Agree with Drew, 440V beats ATS-34. But M-2, if it comes out, beats the hell out of 440V!

Blade: I like both blades in general. I like the Military's flat grind but not the weird belly. I like the standard belly as on the Axis. More importantly, the recurve on the Axis will give incredible performance -- thin the edge down to the Military's 19 degrees per side, the recurve will make the Axis beat the Military in slicing performance.

Opening Method: Agree with Drew again, hole beats stud, but the Axis's stud is working pretty well for me.

Lock: Totally disagree with Drew on this of course. It's no secret I won't even buy a liner lock anymore, they're just too susceptible to too many accidental failures. Granted the Military is probably better-made than most liner locks, but the Axis just blows the liner lock away in about every category.

Handle: Handles are subjective, if Drew says the Axis is uncomfortable, then the Axis is the wrong knife for him. I've found the Axis to have the most comfortable handle I've ever used, especially for extended hard use. I find the Military's handle marginally comfortable, definitely not great.

Carryability: Drew didn't bring this up, but I will. For a 4" blade, the Military's handle is positively huge. For me, it simply goes over the line to "uncarryable" in many situations. The Axis gives you the same sized blade and at least the same cutting power, in a smaller, more carryable package. This is everything to me!

Joe

Jim March · Nov 12, 1999

Sifu!

Because

SIZE

*DOES*

-=MATTER=-!

Jim

David Rock · Nov 12, 1999

I don't like the thumb ramp on the handle. I find myself wanting to put my thumb right on the point formed by that ramp. And that's not very comfortable. Maybe I could get used to it. I don't know. Joe, I'd be interested to hear your views on the thumb ramp, as you obviously like the handle a lot and I don't recall any mention from you on this aspect. Wouldn't you like the 710 better if it were like the AFCK in this respect?

What I like most about the Axis lock is the ease of deployment using the shake-and-flip method--the technique I use to open a butt-end mounted clip (tip up) such as the Endura. I like the fact that there is a spring holding the blade closed, unlike most liner locks.

I'll probably buy one eventually. I wonder if I could dremel off the peak on the thumb ramp without messing up the lock mechanism. It looks like there is a bit of metal to spare above the lock buttons.

Or should I just save up for a Sebenza?

David Rock

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AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.

JoHnYKwSt · Nov 12, 1999

Ghecko,

Snickersee is right. To add a hole to the 710 you would need to change the blade shape radically, not only to keep it from losing strength but to make the hole accessible.

Put an AFCK style blade on the 710 and the lock, yes the mighty Axis Lock, is *still* going to fail before the blade deforms or breaks.

When he means the blade loses strength, it's if you were to pry with the blade, so the lock doens't really have anything to do with this. Also look at the AFCK, the handle has to be designed to accommodate the hole.

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Johnny
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Snickersnee · Nov 13, 1999

Mr. Johnny, thanks for the clarification. If only everyone could read my mind...

leroys_45 · Nov 13, 1999

it would not take that much redesigning to put the glorious spyderco hole on the 710. and as far as reducing blade strength in prying? this is a knife first of all and a pretty expensive one at that! IF YOU WANT TO PRY SOMETHING, GET A CROWBAR!!!!! and i don't enjoy the thumb ramp either, but i guess i'll live with it for a little while.

sdw · Nov 13, 1999

The Axis is a fine knife.BM got it right on this one.A few things that I think would improve it would be grind a thinner edge on it and maybe a full flat grind.I thinned out the edge like Joe Talmadge does and got good results but still can't get the point area as thin as I want it.That area goes dull extra fast on mine and the point does not penatrate that good.Other than that I think it could be the best $100.00 production knife out there.There are others out there but they all seem to have little things wrong with them too.I have a Military also but it just does have that coolness that the Axis has.
There are lots of knives to choose from in the $100 price range and lots of them are excellant but if you want even better performance then you have to go with a Sebenza.Everything works for me on this one.It is alot of fun to use and I jump at every chance I get just to use it.I've handled a Speedtech and it is beautiful but without useing one I have no opinion on it's cutting ability.I like knives that cut with the least effort and the Benza is one of them.Thanks.
scott w

Ivan · Nov 13, 1999

was carrying the Axis 710 which is a great knife. But carry the Carnivour now. Not as smooth,but like the handle better and the bigger blade.

Sal Glesser · Nov 13, 1999

OD - Don't want to get involved in the debate as I am obviously biased. However regarding your comment; "Every Spyderco I have ever seen has an upside down clip" does demonstrate little historical knowledge or Spyderco knowledge.

Fact:

Spyderco began the clip revolution.
Spyderco made the first Tip down carry clips.
Spyderco made the first tip up carry clips.
Spyderco made the first left hand carry clips.
Spyderco made the first ambi clips, both tip up and down.
Spyderco made the first tip up or down clips.

Just clearing the air.

BTW Joe, Our tests do not put M2 (tested Benchmades) anywhere near 440V in edge retention.

sal

Snickersnee · Nov 14, 1999

Leroy, I couldn't agree more re: getting a crowbar instead. Search my posts.

I used my XlTi to pry only under extreme duress. It acquitted itself well. It spread the frame considerably open and flexed around thirty degrees before snapping. Considering I speficicaly selected that particular knife out of all the other XlTi's for its particularly fine point, and the fact that they're made of a lower grade of steel than many other modern knives, that's not bad.

Anyway, the point is that this knife is marketed as being very strong. To add a hole will mean either making the shape of the blade less useful for me, or it will make the blade weaker.

Besides, it's not so much prying I'm talking about as much as lateral stress. Since my folders will see duty as a weapon, this is a consideration.

post · Nov 14, 1999

The 710 rules. I got rid of all my liner locks. Enough said.

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janefromnc

walker

Oregon Duck · Nov 14, 1999

Sorry Sal, yes I guess I should have said, "every Spyderco I have ever been interested in owning had an upside down clip." Of course, that "upside down" part was only my take on it.

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Never confuse movement with action.

Ernest Hemingway

Daniel · Nov 15, 1999

This post further illustrates that no manufacturer will probably ever make a knife that universally appeals to all users as the on "best production folder".

I have all the knives mentioned except the Speedtech folders. Why? Because like all of you- I keep looking for "The One". "There can be only one."

Every day, I pull out the knife drawer and decide what kind of mood that I am in and choose which knife. The 710 is a great knife, but it doesn't always get the nod. More often than not it is the Sebenza or the Apogee.

There are many great knives, but not one that can claim- the best folder for everyone.

Daniel

Sal Glesser · Nov 15, 1999

OD - accepted & thank you. One day we'll build one "just to your liking". A challenge & a goal.

sal

James Mattis · Nov 14, 1999

I've left a Benchmade 710 and a Spyderco Military next to each other on the desk overnight a few times, but so far they haven't produced any offspring. ;-) Likewise with the 710 and the Benchmade 800. I love thinking of new uses for somebody else's manufacturing resources - like an Axis Lock AFCK!

There is still a lot to be said for a well-made lockback. The action is ambidextrous, and strong enough for most practical purposes, and can be smooth as silk if done up right. A lockback's backspring will keep it closed in your pocket better than even a good ball bearing detent can do. A lockback can also be as thick or thin as you want it to be. And we have now seen lockbacks with rear-end ambidestrous clips, and front-end ambidextrous clips, and right-handed fore & aft clips.

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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001

Joe Talmadge · Nov 14, 1999

David Rock --

Agree with you on the thumb ramp. Thumb ramps on the handle of a folder rarely work perfectly for me, although they can work fine in some situations. Thumb ramps on the blade work great almost all the time, at least for my thumb. I do agree the Axis's thumb ramp isn't perfect...

Joe Talmadge · Nov 14, 1999

Sal --

Truth be known, I don't like coatings, so M-2 remains a mixed-blessing for me regardless. D-2, now that may be just the ticket.

I didn't realize 440V beat M-2 in edge holding so much. But in any case, having read a few years worth of 440V posts, I had in mind that M-2 seems at least as tough as -- if not tougher than -- 440V, even though M-2 is at a higher hardness. Looking at the edges of my own knives, I'm beginning to find Cliff's ideas on softer steels deforming to be worthwhile, as this has apparently been happening to me from time to time (not with 440V, just softer steels in general).

On the other hand, I haven't compared your 440V to Benchmade's M-2 head-to-head, so I'll retract my statement about M-2 "blowing away" 440V and say M-2 looks like it probably has other strengths.

Joe

So is there a better all around production folder than the BM 710 Axis or what?

Sebenzanista