So... who has a surplus grinder?

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Spend a little more and get variable speed KMG/Bader/Square Wheel etc. It will cost you less later. Good tools don't cost more, they save you time and improve your knives.
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Unfortunately, by "spend a little more" what you're really saying is spend $1,000 more! The KMG is 3x the cost of the Grizzly, and from the 100+ messages I've read about it there is very little to really dislike about the Grizzly. KMG would be nice, but it's probably overkill for what I need considering that the Grizzly is supposed to be a very nice machine.
 
Chiro75 said:
Unfortunately, by "spend a little more" what you're really saying is spend $1,000 more! The KMG is 3x the cost of the Grizzly, and from the 100+ messages I've read about it there is very little to really dislike about the Grizzly. KMG would be nice, but it's probably overkill for what I need considering that the Grizzly is supposed to be a very nice machine.
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You must have a reading comprehension problem. The difference between the KMG, and the grizzly can't even be measured.

You can't upgrade the grizzly one bit, can't make it variable speed, nothing. It vibrates, you will have problems trying to grind to the left because the motor housing is there. It only runs at one speed, VERY FAST, I don't know how many threads have been posted on this subject, but when a person wants to get by with the cheapest equipment he can buy, they tend to only read those posts that support the cheap stuff.
You don't even see the ones giving the negatives.

If you spend the money for a grizzly, it's just money you wasted that could have gone to a good grinder, one that could be upgraded.

You can get an AC variable frequency control, and motor for as little as $323.00 complete, from Dealers electric.
http://www.dealerselectric.com/

If you want to go cheap, fine, but don't spew all this nonsense about all the thousands of dollars more the right stuff costs, because it's just not true.

You've seem to have made a career of TALKING about becoming a knifemaker, and getting some kind of grinder, sometime in the future, like Craig mentioned earlier in this thread. Why don't you just do something.

Everyone has credit cards today, even kids. I don't have much patience with this, "I just can't afford it" line of reasoning. If you want something bad enough, you'll find a way. Sell some things. Certainly you have things worth money. It's just a question of what you want more, your stuff, or to make knives.
Like I said earlier. I didn't even have a job when I decided to go full time. I sold most of my firearms, and half my furniture, I even sold my dirt bike, which meant quite a lot to me, but I wanted knifemaking more.
There are lots of makers here who have gone without so they could get some piece equipment, or other. They do it because they're dedicated makers.

So you see, I really have no patience with selective comprehension, or whining when it comes to getting the right gear.
Do it, or quit talking about it. :barf: :rolleyes: ;)
 
Had a whole message in response to Mike. Decided to delete it. Don't have a coronary, is all I have to say. Maybe when my mommy let's me get a bigger toy (that was a great idea, putting it on a credit card so I can pay 25% interest for the rest of my life. Why dind't I think of that? Buy responsibly? Hell no, this is America son! Free cash for everyone woo hoo!) I can come out and play with the big dogs. Sheesh.

I've been reading a bunch of "This old boy's forum sucks you guys are a bunch of pricks to new people" messages and thinking "Nah, they must be crazy" but now I know where they're coming from.

Have a great day, Mike, and you're right that my math was a little off. The KMG is only 2.5 times higher in price than the Grizzly, so I stand corrected. I was thinking of buying a new car soon. Hell, for a little bit more I can get an s-series, and on Mike's Financing Plan I can put it all on those little plastic doohickies! Woohoo! Or better yet, sell my x-ray machine and have money to spare!
 
www.cootebeltgrinder.com

Room to work around the contact wheel. Can be made variable speed either with a $50 set of step pulleys or the motor set up of your choosing. Can be modified down the road, some nice attachments available.
I haven't gotten any farther than bolting mine to the workbench and I'm already glad I didn't get a grizzly.
Seriously, this is the one grinder where people seemed to say it was a decent grinder. Not "a decent grinder if your on a tight budget". Its not a KMG, Bader, or Wilton but folks seem to like them.
I couldn't afford a KMG level grinder either, but I'm in this for the long haul and bought the best I could. I really think you should look around before ordering a grizzly.
 
Matt, thanks for the reminder on the Coote. Took me a while to find the website. They have it pretty well hidden! This seems like a definite step up from the grizzly, but the downside is that I REALLY don't know squat about motors, so now more research... Again, with the Coote, it sounds like the 10" wheel is desirable, but I'd also need either a variable speed motor or a motor with step pulleys to alter the speed.

Everyone seems to suggest a 1-2 horsepower motor, the higher the better, spinning at around 1750rpm or so. I assume you can increase this speed by putting a larger pulley on the grinder and a smaller pully on the motor, or slow it down by switching them around, right? I also assume, based on price, that the compressor motors are not the way to go with something like this. Assuming the best all-around, non-variable, step-pully setup, what would be a good motor and a link to the site? I've checked surpluscenter.com but it makes my head spin, don't know if I need dual, CW or CCW, etc...
 
Compressor motors aren't intended for steady use. They run hard for a few minutes then shut down for a few minutes. They also run too fast.

What you want to look for is a farm duty or better TEFC (totally enclosed fan cooled) motor. Preferably capacitor start. And the Coote is recommended for a 1725 rpm motor. They will sell you step pulleys to go with it, they fit a standard motor shaft, and give you 3 speed settings that should cover most uses pretty well.
I got a Dayton 1-1/2 HP 1725 capacitor start, TEFC farm duty motor for about $140. The store I bought it at gave me a discount for being a farm bureau member though, normally it'd be around $200. Its rated for continuous use in high torque applications.
Then I had to put a cord on it. For about $20 I was able to get a heavy duty switch, box and stainless cover, 10ft of 12/3 SO cable, and a heavy duty plug. I also put 2 feet of BX (flexible metal conduit) on the cord going from the motor to the switch box since its right there where the grit gets thrown.

So all together I've got a somewhat variable speed set up with a horse and and a half motor, and a 10" wheel that you can use for under $700. Its not the same level as a Bader or KMG, but I think I will be able to do alot with it and I can add to it over time. With a grizzly, you get a decent tool, but its never going to get any better, and it has a few faults from the start.
 
Clockwise or counter clockwise depends on which way you want the motor facing. I've got mine set up running clockwise, but have seen others do differently. Most good motors can run either way, depends on how they're wired.
 
Matt, thanks for the precise info. So you're saying your motor runs at one speed but you're using the pulleys to vary it, right? I'm seeing some possible shoestring options for rigged variable setups, so that could run super cheap, too. I have an occasional patient who owns a motor shop, so he'd be a good resource, but knowing him he'll charge me double! :D
 
Chiro75 said:
I've been reading a bunch of "This old boy's forum sucks you guys are a bunch of pricks to new people" messages and thinking "Nah, they must be crazy" but now I know where they're coming from.

Have a great day, Mike, and you're right that my math was a little off. The KMG is only 2.5 times higher in price than the Grizzly, so I stand corrected. I was thinking of buying a new car soon. Hell, for a little bit more I can get an s-series, and on Mike's Financing Plan I can put it all on those little plastic doohickies! Woohoo! Or better yet, sell my x-ray machine and have money to spare!
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First off, you're not a newcomer to this forum, so don't whine about all us "good ol boy" "pricks" picking on you. You've been banned from other forums because of your behaviour, and some of the things you pulled on knifemakers there. This can all be dragged up if you wish.
Don't give me the 25% interest for life bit, as usual, you only read what you want. As for the rest of your spew.............:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Grow the hell up, and do something on your own without whining.
 
Craig, I have one of those blue anodized California grinders with v.s. and I love it, kind of a pita to change tooling but still a great machine.

Chiro, When I first started out I did a lot of research on what equipment to buy for knife making. Coote was mentioned quite a bit as a good, dependable machine, but what was mentioned even more was to get the best equipment that you can, even if you have to save up for it or as mentioned, sell other stuff to buy the best. Well I didn't listen to the advice and bought a piece of crap grinder thinking it would be better than files and sandpaper, especially since I was a newbie. What a mistake!! It was so frustrating that I almost quite knife making. I was at a point that I had to decide if I was serious about making knives even if it was then only a hobby. As I'm sure a lot of other makers have done, I sold whatever useless material things that I had and bought a real machine. What a huge difference the right machine makes, I no longer spent my time battling and being frustrated with the equipment, I spent my time learning how to make a knife.
Only you know your finances and how serious you are about making knives but don't make the same mistake I did, buy the best that you can, you'll be glad you did. Besides, you can always recoup most of your money from a good grinder if you decide knife making is not for you.
 
Okay, first of all, Mike is completely full of crap. No, I realize (duh) that I'm not a new guy, but for this creep to jump all over me is ridiculous. And it has been happening to new folks here, so the ol' welcome wagon may need a tune up, ya dig? I've given as much help as I've gotten here and gotten along fine with everyone here, for the most part. Mike obviously has a problem with me for some other reason. Feel free to email me if you'd like, Mike and we can discuss this like rational adults if you're up for it. This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this forum or this post at all, but if Mike wants to go toe-to-toe I'm more than happy to call him on this complete load of fertilizer that he's trying to drop.

The "other forum" he's talking about is Usual Suspects Network. Went there, jumped through all their hoops to actually read the posts, and had a fine time, with the exception that I emailed and PM'd every administrator on there about what it takes to be able to sell a knife or two and was completely ignored for an entire week. I got over it pretty darn quickly, but Mike is obviously still irritated by it, although I'm not real sure what business it is of his.

In any case, people were salivating over Tom Anderson's machined kubatons and someone made the comment of them being nice, but more dough than they can spend. I've been a longtime admirer of Tom's work and I made what I thought was a funny comment "Tom could take a piece of petrified dog poo from my backyard, machine it, slap a $60 price tag on it and we'd be all over it to buy." Meaning that with Tom's skills he could turn a piece of poop into a work of art.

The people Mike is so adeptly representing took it to mean that I thought Tom's work was dog poop. I explained what I meant, they said "Go f yourself, newbie" and a few other similar things. I tried to explain again, and again, they said "Roll over or get kicked out." I refused to apologize for a misunderstanding, no one budged, I got booted. What Mikey doesn't know is that I'm a member of many forums and get along just fine on them all. USN is another matter altogether, but since he brought it up, there's the story. Big, bad me! Classic online misunderstanding, but he wants to try to defame me here now, so that's cool if he wants to get off-topic and discuss my other forum dealings.

In any case, you guys have been pretty helpful. Even Mike has in his own little way. Hopefully the rest of the week goes well and I assume this thread will shortly be laid to rest. Dakcon, sorry you let Mike's comments made you feel stupid for sharing your knowledge. Feel free to look through my other 2,500 posts on Bladeforums and why don't you decide for yourself if I'm a total scumbag as Mike would have you believe, or if maybe he's just having a bad time of things right now. Dunno what the deal is, myself, so hopefully he'll contact me and I can find out. Until then I'm in the dark as much for this attack as anyone else.
 
Steve, I tried to explain some of this in the email I sent you--sorry it wasn't a deal on a grinder like you expected. :rolleyes:

Sean
 
Sean, I guess this teaches me to never put it out there that I'm interested in used equipment. Lesson learned, thanks! I'm used to dealing with people in my own profession who actually sell stuff they aren't using when they upgrade to new equipment. Sorry for asking! :rolleyes:
 
Steve, I think the point was that many of these guys ( with some having 30 years in the business) have given some fantastic advise about buying a grinder. Sure advise is advise, just remember here it's free. Other professions make you pay for a seminar to get relevant info. If JIm Parker told you that you had to buy "XYZ" table to maximise your adjustments--would you balk, say "but this one here is...." Or would you go out and get it ?
Steve, if your doing this for a hobby, or for fun thats fantastic. Many of us here are as passionate about knifemaking ( for a living) as you are about your full time profession.
If your trying to make a living as a knifemaker, and want to keep from making mistakes on what tools to buy this is a great place to learn--you';ll hardly ever get bad advise from any of the great guys here. In the long run, their advise can save you thousands of dollars--I've been there.
Oh, and this is hardly a good ol'boys prick network. Like I said before, some of these guys I have actually met in person, and consider good friends. Calling them "pricks" isn't going to get you anywhere.
 
Chiro75 said:
Okay, first of all, Mike is completely full of crap. No, I realize (duh) that I'm not a new guy, but for this creep to jump all over me is ridiculous. And it has been happening to new folks here, so the ol' welcome wagon may need a tune up, ya dig? I've given as much help as I've gotten here and gotten along fine with everyone here, for the most part. Mike obviously has a problem with me for some other reason. Feel free to email me if you'd like, Mike and we can discuss this like rational adults if you're up for it. This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this forum or this post at all, but if Mike wants to go toe-to-toe I'm more than happy to call him on this complete load of fertilizer that he's trying to drop.

The "other forum" he's talking about is Usual Suspects Network. Went there, jumped through all their hoops to actually read the posts, and had a fine time, with the exception that I emailed and PM'd every administrator on there about what it takes to be able to sell a knife or two and was completely ignored for an entire week. I got over it pretty darn quickly, but Mike is obviously still irritated by it, although I'm not real sure what business it is of his.

In any case, people were salivating over Tom Anderson's machined kubatons and someone made the comment of them being nice, but more dough than they can spend. I've been a longtime admirer of Tom's work and I made what I thought was a funny comment "Tom could take a piece of petrified dog poo from my backyard, machine it, slap a $60 price tag on it and we'd be all over it to buy." Meaning that with Tom's skills he could turn a piece of poop into a work of art.

The people Mike is so adeptly representing took it to mean that I thought Tom's work was dog poop. I explained what I meant, they said "Go f yourself, newbie" and a few other similar things. I tried to explain again, and again, they said "Roll over or get kicked out." I refused to apologize for a misunderstanding, no one budged, I got booted. What Mikey doesn't know is that I'm a member of many forums and get along just fine on them all. USN is another matter altogether, but since he brought it up, there's the story. Big, bad me! Classic online misunderstanding, but he wants to try to defame me here now, so that's cool if he wants to get off-topic and discuss my other forum dealings.

In any case, you guys have been pretty helpful. Even Mike has in his own little way. Hopefully the rest of the week goes well and I assume this thread will shortly be laid to rest. Dakcon, sorry you let Mike's comments made you feel stupid for sharing your knowledge. Feel free to look through my other 2,500 posts on Bladeforums and why don't you decide for yourself if I'm a total scumbag as Mike would have you believe, or if maybe he's just having a bad time of things right now. Dunno what the deal is, myself, so hopefully he'll contact me and I can find out. Until then I'm in the dark as much for this attack as anyone else.
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Chiro,

That's the funniest thing I've ever read. Thanks for the laugh. Trust me, there are more poeple out here besides Mike that has issues with you. Feel free to read through your 2500+ posts, yes by all means do so!! What is it now 6 years you've been whining, crying and sponging off anyone that will feel sorry for you??? In one way you ARE right, your problems at the USN were due to your history preceeding you. In the short time you were there, you must have established some kind of record for saying stupid $()#$ and then apologizing for it as in the Tom Anderson post. :footinmou Call it one more classic online missunderstanding!! :rolleyes: :barf:

As many of you know, I rarely post here. After reading this thread I couldn't hold back. Anyone thinking of helping out poor old Chiro, I wish you well. Hopefully he wont turn the situation around and stick it up your A$$$ like he did with me.

On a happier note........GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS!!!
 
Mike Hull said:
....You can't upgrade the grizzly one bit, can't make it variable speed, nothing. It vibrates, you will have problems trying to grind to the left because the motor housing is there. It only runs at one speed, VERY FAST, I don't know how many threads have been posted on this subject, but when a person wants to get by with the cheapest equipment he can buy, they tend to only read those posts that support the cheap stuff.
You don't even see the ones giving the negatives.

If you spend the money for a grizzly, it's just money you wasted that could have gone to a good grinder, one that could be upgraded.
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Mike,
I always respect and find helpful your input here on the forum.
How long ago did you use a Grizzly? I ask because the one I have has never vibrated in it's original form (I will admit it did, at first, after I converted it to variable speed but that was a pulley issue much like the fellow posted about his KMG a little while back.), perhaps Grizzly has made some improvements since you last used/owned one.

I would disagree that the Grizzly can't be upgraded but concede it won't be as easily done or as extensively as on a KMG (or others) or with factory parts (other than the larger contact wheel). There was a good thread on Grizzly mods/upgrades on TKNF recently.

Yep, you will have problems doing hollow grinds to the left. The 10" wheel corrects this some (as well as some modifications do) but you are right it is an inconvenience.

It is fast right out of the box at 3663 sfpm., but that is still slower than the stock, fixed speed Wilton Square Wheel at a belt speed of 4600 SFPM.

The Grizzly will need work on the platen.

I understand that calling something cheap is relative to that person's point of view. I would like to offer up that the G1015 is not cheap, worthless machine, but one cheaper in cost and with more shortcoming’s than many of the more expensive/capable machines out there. It most certainly is not the everyday machine for a full time maker, however it is not a waste of money if it meets the wants of the person purchasing it for what it is: a capable entry-level machine. Some people never progress past that point or feel the need for a more expensive machine. If they do, then maybe the money spent on the Grizzly would have been better spent on the Cadillac of grinders (said with most respect) to start with. I still think the Grizzly will have a place in their shop. My point is that not everyone needs a KMG, Bader , etc. relative to their situation or ideas about making knives.
To me it is kind of like hunting birds with that old single shot 20 ga.; most definitely took me a different path then when using the Model 12, but I enjoyed the hunt all the same :).

Have fun guys, no matter what tools you use.

Regards,
Greg
 
Many of us here are as passionate about knifemaking ( for a living) as you are about your full time profession.
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I'm pretty passionate about making knives, I just need to make it clear that I'm not trying to make it a full-time gig. That doesn't mean I don't take it seriously. I'm just tired of slashing my hands up using files and killing myself to do work that takes normal people 1/8 of the time. I tend to overthink big purchases, though, and I guess people get tired of it. For that, I apologize.

And, again, here I go having to explain another misinterpretation of what I said... I didn't call this an good ol' boys network. I've been around this forum as long as if not longer than everyone else. What I did say is that I understand where some people have been getting jumped on lately and why they would think that this is a blah blah blah. Big difference.

On a happier note........GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS!!!
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This, I can agree with! As far as the rest of what you have to say I'm clueless. ???m Please email me and let me know what you think I did to you to "stick it up your A$$" :confused:

Man, nice to know all these people, some of whom I don't remember even hearing of before (like Mike) are ready to jump all over me for things I have no idea about. Wow!
 
This thread is going nowhere. I see Chiro76 started a follow up on it with His views on grinders.

FWIW, I've been a moderator here since this forum started. I have great institutional memory and fully understand where CL Wilkins, Mike Hull, Neil Blackwood, and others are coming from.

Chiro75, I must have missed this bunch of reading - Chiro75 quote- "I've been reading a bunch of "This old boy's forum sucks you guys are a bunch of pricks to new people" messages and thinking "Nah, they must be crazy" but now I know where they're coming from."

I know there are a few cases of a new member, on his first post, coming on and basically demanding information without even saying Hi. Not good form and some of the replies reflect that.

As far as giving out free information there are dozens of very experienced makers that do that all day, every day here. Feel free to PM or email me with a link to those threads or messages you mentioned that says we are a bunch of pricks.
 
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