So why doesn't the big companies get into the "pocket tool" market?

hardheart said:
A new member could blast Dark Ops, United, S&W, Gerber, CRKT, etc. all day long and get a grand welcome. This is not Atwoodforums, nor even an Atwood specific sub-forum. A dissenting opinion on individual brands/makers should not have people screaming troll from the rooftops, yet it happens every single time. Protip-if people who don't like the same things as you are trolls, then you got a few billion to deal with across the globe.

I too do not understand the steel choice. There are cheaper steels to acquire, grind, and HT. I don't know what about an S30V prybar appeals to anyone who bothers to research what they are buying. Wow, 3% vanadium, that'll help pull a nail.
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Probably the same reason people want pure titanium knives, hype.
 
I don't want to bash on Mr. Atwood or his products. Yes, I'm sure there is a hype factor, but that is more than likely because the tools are very well made (have not handled personally) The issue for me is that they seem... over engineered? This would lead some to believe they are mediocre/overpriced. As practical tools, they are a little mediocre compared to traditional fare. These are pretty darn tiny screwdrivers, lifters, prybars. Not a lot of leverage, not a lot of work to get done. Surely better than bare fingers, but are you gonna get a day's work done, even a simple DIY repair job at home? Probably not gonna happen for most tasks. So, a little mediocre in that regards. Yeah, but so are a lot of our little pocket compromises. Yet, this is where another issue comes up. For around the same prices, there are plenty of pliers/scissors based multitools, SAKs, or a variety of things at the hardware store that are pocketable and multi-functional. Some are much, much cheaper, like the flat keyfob screwdrivers, that will of course also do a little prying/lifting. Some are priced similar, but have more tools.

It's like our knife choices, a lot of us spend a lot for things don't necessarily do the job any better, particularly if the job is a rough one. I don't think one of my $3-400 <3" slipjoints is a better choice than any boxcutter if all I'm doing is cutting boxes.

So, for the price, with the other options out there, I don't think overpriced/mediocre is completely out there, just because we all get to have different opinions, and they're based on different criteria.

I believe the Atwood tools are well made, I see no reason to own one.
 
Josh K said:
Probably the same reason people want pure titanium knives, hype.
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Who sells pure titanium knives? I have a Mission MBK which is titanium alloy and very handy in the kitchen. Not hype. I like to try different styles and materials.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Who sells pure titanium knives? I have a Mission MBK which is titanium alloy and very handy in the kitchen. Not hype. I like to try different styles and materials.
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Every once in a while someone will come along and ask "why not make a titanium knife? Wouldn't that be perfect?" You have to explain that while titanium is desirable for some things, it's not really suitable for knives. Mission knives are a titanium alloy and they've been working on that for a while. Still they are expensive.
 
It's still not just hype. It's specialized. There's a difference.

Just as there's a difference between saying Atwood's tools are expensive toys and saying his customers are snobby elitists.
 
hardheart said:
so Corz is too cheap to know what a good pocket tool is?

I hope your edc knife is at least a Lochsa. Again, people have different opinions. Some people are fine with a CRKT M16, or a CS Voyager, or an Opinel. Other people tell them those knives are junk. Who is too cheap, who is too snobby?
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Why do I need to EDC a Lochsa? I would love to but I have been buying more slipjoints lately. I'm not the one calling people elitist. I say get what you want and can afford but don't slam people for buying something that you think is too expensive for what you get.. The guy comes on this forum and every post is a slam to someone. Do you know corz personally? If you do fill us in on what his agenda really is. To me it is getting people like you and I at each other. If I offended you I am sorry but I still think the guy is a TROLL.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
It's still not just hype. It's specialized. There's a difference.

Just as there's a difference between saying Atwood's tools are expensive toys and saying his customers are snobby elitists.
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I came across wrong.

Sure you can use 3V and S30V for prying tools. Especially in that thickness. The problem is it's expensive, but countered with the pitch "latest and greatest." Thus my "hype" comment.

I didn't mean to infer that they were "snobby elitists." If you can afford it, more power to you, they are some nice tools.
 
mmarkh said:
Why do I need to EDC a Lochsa? I would love to but I have been buying more slipjoints lately. I'm not the one calling people elitist. I say get what you want and can afford but don't slam people for buying something that you think is too expensive for what you get.. The guy comes on this forum and every post is a slam to someone. Do you know corz personally? If you do fill us in on what his agenda really is. To me it is getting people like you and I at each other. If I offended you I am sorry but I still think the guy is a TROLL.
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I have no idea who he is. I just hate whenever there's a tendency to groupthink. Peter Atwood is a great person, doesn't mean his products are worth buying. The products are almost certainly very high quality. Again, doesn't mean they have value, or at least value that equals the asking price. I'm not at all offended, I just like discussion, because this is a large forum, and I think it should accept all opinions on the tools themselves at face value until things get personal. I have my own bias, as do we all, and we have to accept that one man's trash is another's treasure, and it's subjective.

I had never heard of the Gerber Shard before this thread, it's an interesting sidenote, and a really good example of how wide the range can be in price/quality/features for this class of tool. Gerber makes knives, but I don't carry them, I'll be an elitist about that :D
 
hardheart said:
I have no idea who he is. I just hate whenever there's a tendency to groupthink. Peter Atwood is a great person, doesn't mean his products are worth buying. The products are almost certainly very high quality. Again, doesn't mean they have value, or at least value that equals the asking price. I'm not at all offended, I just like discussion, because this is a large forum, and I think it should accept all opinions on the tools themselves at face value until things get personal. I have my own bias, as do we all, and we have to accept that one man's trash is another's treasure, and it's subjective.

I had never heard of the Gerber Shard before this thread, it's an interesting sidenote, and a really good example of how wide the range can be in price/quality/features for this class of tool. Gerber makes knives, but I don't carry them, I'll be an elitist about that :D
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I don't really call troll unless I think it warrants it. On another thread Corz is slamming Rick Hinderer and saying he is ripping people off. When a guy has under 50 posts and they are all complaints about respected makers prices I just have to wonder what they are up to. I don't know how someone can expect custom pieces to cost the same as mass produced stuff like Gerbers.
 
While I normally agree with hardheart, in this case I tend to agree with mmarkh. The OP's choice of insulting verbiage does tend to make me doubt his motives, especially since this is the second time he has used such verbiage in addressing respected makers.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=661021

No one has to appreciate every design. They should not insult the man who makes that design.
 
CWL said:
I have an original style Atwood PryBaby and it has held up to some major abuse (such as prying open steel lockboxes during an emergency.) I do agree that his new stuff is wandering away from "good use" form, fit and function though.

If you want alternatives, would $5 each fit your needs? Look here for Govt. issue gear such as $5 mini prybars (3 sizes), also take a look at the EOD breacher bar and Versadriver. You should be able to load-up for the price of an Atwood. (note: I have several of the mini prybars stashed everywhere for handy access and they all work, but my PryBaby has still held-up the best.)
http://countycomm.com/widgy.htm
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I love mine!

P1020594.jpg
 
I'd like to add that I keep my original Atwood PryBaby in my computer bag. It has been removed at airports throughout the US, Europe and Asia when I go through the metal detectors, and on every occasion they've replaced it back into my bag after a quick examination.

Useful little tool (particularly the bottle opener!)
 
What we have here. . . . . . is a failure to communicate due to over the top rhetoric a la talk radio. Never just voice an opinion and ask what others might add. Word it in absolutes and ad hominems, demonizing the object you're criticizing and any who might disagree before they even have a chance to respond. Thanks but I choose not to play. One more for the ol' ignore list.

BTW, this is meant for the OP, not whoever's post the reply icon was in.
 
mmarkh said:
I may not be a "pro" but the OP called Atwood products "overpriced and mediocre". How many has he bought and used to come up with that assertion? I understand everyone won't like everything I like but to come to this forum and start slamming makers with fine reputations right off the bat seems like trolling to me.
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I'm guessing he doesn't own any because] they are[/B "overpriced and mediocre." I for one like seeing some criticism, just because OP has a different opinion than whats excepted, means he is a troll? Am I too a troll for disagreeing with you?

Also I agree that S30V and other cutlery steels are entirely the wrong choices for tools, they just make them more expensive and weaker.
 
You're not a troll for disagreeing, read some of the other posts and threads started by the OP in this thread, and you will see that he seems to have a woody for some makers.

Chuck
 
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brandonc said:
I'm guessing he doesn't own any because] they are[/B "overpriced and mediocre." I for one like seeing some criticism, just because OP has a different opinion than whats excepted, means he is a troll? Am I too a troll for disagreeing with you?

Also I agree that S30V and other cutlery steels are entirely the wrong choices for tools, they just make them more expensive and weaker.
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chuckinohio said:
You're not a troll for disagreeing, read some of the other posts by the OP in this thread, and you will see that he seems to have a woody for some makers.

Chuck
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I don't mind criticism if it isn't baseless. If someone has or uses something and doesn't like it fine but don't come on here slamming makers because of what they charge or what material they use when you haven't seen the product anywhere but in a picture on the internet. I am not a maker so I won't get into a discussion on what steel they should use. I also would surely patronize someone if they started making quality tools from different materials.
 
mmarkh said:
I don't mind criticism if it isn't baseless. If someone has or uses something and doesn't like it fine but don't come on here slamming makers because of what they charge or what material they use when you haven't seen the product anywhere but in a picture on the internet.
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I am in total agreement, I edited my post that you quoted so as to be more clear that I was talking about the originator of this thread and not anyone else.

Chuck
 
Let It Bleed said:
I'd imagine he obtained patents on all his designs and products. ....
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I've only seen him put out limited runs of different tools. All that I've seen are very neatly done. To patent each design of small batch runs would be a big dollar loss to him. Patents cost thousands.
 
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