Soft vs. hard detent

Harder detents make flipper design and geometry less important. There are plenty of custom makers who have flippers with softer detents that still rocket open.

I had a Velox from Michael Vagnino that would flip open like a rocket even if the knife wasn't closed the entire way. It literally would have flipped beautifully with no detent.
 
Scurvy092 said:
Harder detents make flipper design and geometry less important. There are plenty of custom makers who have flippers with softer detents that still rocket open.

I had a Velox from Michael Vagnino that would flip open like a rocket even if the knife wasn't closed the entire way. It literally would have flipped beautifully with no detent.
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That's an excellent point.
 
Not an easy question to answer. For me, it's always a question of how all of the elements integrate. The detent, the tab/stud design and orientation, gimping (both on the tab and the back of the knife - thinking of the ZT 0566 - ouch!), etc. In general, I'd prefer a solid medium - whatever that means! Examples would be the ZT 0801 and the CKF Morrf.
 
I only saw this rather interesting thread just now and wonder if a more-than-month-late post might bump it back to life.

colubrid said:
I prefer a soft detent. But I also prefer tip down carry. Since most knives have tip up I want a hard detent because I have cut myself pretty bad with a few tip up knives because of the detent being to soft.

For me the only reason to have a hard detent is because of tip up carry.
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I can't recall a tip-up knife ever opening in my pocket. I've had a few with pretty soft detents, but with tip-up the blade is against the back of your pocket and pretty much out of the way. With tip down, there's a tendency to engage the blade with your hand when reaching for whatever else might be in there at the bottom. I can't recall the knife, but do remember that happening once to me with a tip-down model. Pretty much everything I carry is tip up, which is my preference given a choice. My Millie is my only dedicated, regularly carried tip-down blade.

Scurvy092 said:
Harder detents make flipper design and geometry less important. There are plenty of custom makers who have flippers with softer detents that still rocket open.

I had a Velox from Michael Vagnino that would flip open like a rocket even if the knife wasn't closed the entire way. It literally would have flipped beautifully with no detent.
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Otto Carpenter said:
That's an excellent point.
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As Otto said, that's an excellent point, Scurvy092. Hard detents can mask poor flipping design (as do spring assists, which I really dislike). My ZT0452 is a favorite, but it took me I-don't-know-how-many flips (thousands, perhaps) to break in that hard-ass detent to the point that my index finger did not want to secede from my hand. ZTs are known as good flippers, and those I have are, but I don't know that the detents have to so damn tight. On the other hand, my Spydie Southard does not have great flipper mechanics and would benefit from a stronger detent. I just gave my two flipper Shiros the Scurvy092 test and opened them just past the detent-closing point. They both flipped open quite easily with no detent and very little flipper tab available.

I just got into my first Hinderer, a Gen 4 3.5" XM18. There's been a lot of whining over the years about light detents and inconsistent flipping action on those knives. The one I picked up has a fairly light detent and will indeed wrist-flick open, but it flips just fine without much concentration on proper technique. It's shown no inclination to open in my pocket in tip-up mode. I just won't be taking it to NYC for sure. :D
 
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For thumb studs and holes only, soft to medium soft. For flippers with sizable flipper tabs, medium hard to hard.

For well designed flippers (obviously saying the aforementioned designs are not very well thought out), then solid medium. As long as the knife is kept from opening in my pocket. That's most important. Hinderers were, at least at one point, notoriously bad about it. ZT was pretty good about fixing that issue.
 
The locking mechanism is the key to what type of detent you prefer.

Compression locks seem to have the perfect combination of above average blade retention when closed, a clean break when opening, and very smooth action.

This discussion seems centered around framelock flippers, and to be honest, it's really luck of the draw.

Soft detents are all-around a bad sign of craftsmanship, regardless if the knife cost $5, $150, or $500.
 
The only reason I don't like soft detents is the knife opening when you don't want. The knives I have with soft detents are right hand tip up carry, so I don't have to worry about it opening in the pocket. Would like it if they had stronger detents though.
 
Hard detent for a flipper
Medium detent for thumbstub or hole

Soft detent is a no no period, much greater chance for the knife to open in pocket and cause a nasty injury.
 
I prefer a super stiff detent regardless of opening method or lock type. Some systems can or do lend themselves toward a stiffer/sturdier detent. It's one of the reasons I really dig Spyderco back locks.


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ChazzyP said:
I can't recall a tip-up knife ever opening in my pocket. I've had a few with pretty soft detents, but with tip-up the blade is against the back of your pocket and pretty much out of the way. With tip down, there's a tendency to engage the blade with your hand when reaching for whatever else might be in there at the bottom. I can't recall the knife, but do remember that happening once to me with a tip-down model. Pretty much everything I carry is tip up, which is my preference given a choice. My Millie is my only dedicated, regularly carried tip-down blade.
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Pretty much my experience: Tip up is much safer when the detent fails... Furthermore, opening tip up in the back pocket will have the point pointing toward the wearer's body, still inside the pocket, because the rear bum "bulge" is below the knife: This is much safer, except for a minor cut if you reach inside, and this against a blade that is loosely moving...: There is far worse that a failed detent can do... In a tip-down carry, the point is pushed outwards and, with a sharp tip, might poke through the pocket, sticking away from the body... Worse of all, that point is now being rigidly held by the pant fabric it has just poked through... (unlike any other opening scenario): Anything brushing nearby at high speed is cut by a perfectly rigid blade sticking completely out in the open: A nightmare scenario that can actually cut badly another person if they brush by close enough...

The knife that realized this nightmare scenario for me was the CRKT Apache, 4" blade, one of the sharpest out of the box knives I have ever owned...: The secondary edge grind on this was a fully asymmetrical grind that was strangely hollow on the tall side of the edge bevel, and that made the sharpness all the more catastrophic in this case: A fully opened-up finger for me that took six weeks of being bandaged before it fully healed...

Gaston
 
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