SOG Government Agent Failure

A. G. Russell said:
I have asked the staff to remove the comment about hammer. I do NOT reccommend such use! A. G.
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Mr. Russell. You'll be glad to know that it's gone. I checked the link above to see what all the fuss was about before reading your post and couldn't find anything about being used as a hammer. Also, just want to say I'm amazed by your customer service. Keep up the good work.

Lagarto
 
My respect for A.G. Russell as a shrewd buisnessman has gone up. More companies should be involved online regarding their product.
 
A. G. Russell said:
I hope that the copy on hammering did not appear on my web site or catalog. Anybody who uses a pommel for a hammer and tears up his fingers on the nail will bleed without my feeling any pain. I learned better before I was a teen ager.

Why are some of you expressing doubt about what I will do about this mans return.

We will replace it or refund his money, if he plans to go on throwing it we will refund his money and suggest that he buy the replaceent somewhere else. Lots of great throwing knives out there with spring timper. No hunting knife, tempered to hold an edge is going to stand up to throwing.

Any one who is honest enough to confess to throwing (instead of "dropping it on the carpet" or "just cutting soft pine") should find that honesty rewarded.

A. G.
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That's really stepping up to the plate. One Bravo Zulu for A.G.:thumbup:
 
"Bravo Zulu" indeed !! now there's a term I've not heard, much less used, in many a year... yet how perfectly perfect for Mr Russell !!!

Cheers,

Carl
 
AG has once again shown his generosity. As a career manager in customer service, this is certainly the level of service I would love to give, but to date, I have yet to work for a company where the ownership supported such policy.

The following is an illustration I have been given that drives home their philosophies. I've embellished a little, making a little (fictional) story from it:
A young, single girl buys a new car at her local Chevy dealer. A few weeks later, she limps the car back on to the lot requesting a new car. When several managers (the General Manager, Sales Manager, and the Service Manager) come out to see why, they are surprised to see the noticeable front end damage signifying an accident. When asking the girl what had happened, she said, "well, you see, yesterday, I was driving down State Street while I was talking on my cell phone and putting on my lipstick. I guess I was a little distracted. Before I knew it, there was a car very close in front of me stopped at a red light. I stomped on the brakes, but I hit the car. Regardless of what I was doing, I expect the car to stop safely whenever I press on the brakes." Well, the Service Manager says, "the brakes are designed to stop the car, but there are limitations to stopping a car. Due to the weight of the car, the type of tires, and the strength of the brakes, it will take a certain distance to stop a car. It is an issue of physics." The Sales Manager then said, "we would love to give you a new car, but if we did it for you, we would have to do it for every careless, drunk, or reckless driver who wrecks the cars we sale." And then the General Manager added, "If we gave you a new car, we would be admitting that the car was responsible for each accident, not the driver, and that would open us up to lawsuits, paying out millions of dollars to families who have lost family members or who are seeking damages for injury and/or lost wages for time off of work. In a short amount of time, we would go out of business and no one would be able to buy cars." She became angry, saying, "I bought this car from you several weeks ago and now look at it; it's broken and I can barely drive it. It's a new car...this isn't fair. I expected the car to remain new."
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Well, "accidents" happen, but "accidents" are not the responsibility of the manufacturer; they are the responsibility of the user (unless a defect is present). That's why we have insurance on our larger possessions. We can get those items repaired or replaced if we mess up and ruin them...because of course, it isn't the makers' faults. Yes, we may feel angry. Yes, we may be disappointed. Yes, we may look to find someone to blame. Yes, we may want someone to give us a new one. And yes, we feel embarrassed. But it will be rare to find a store/manufacturer who will just hand out replacements for such accidents.

And, the argument that because other manufacturers do it, thus every manufacturer must do it isn't at all fair. Yes, there are some knife manufacturers and dealers, like AG, Busse, and very few others, who will step up to the plate and replace anything...no questions asked. In my opinion, that is simply amazing and makes their reputation nothing short of historic. Non-knife companies have done the same...Nordstrom comes to mind. But these types of companies are very rare. In recent years, knowing that they were being abused by some customers, Nordstrom has revised their return policy to be a bit more realistic (but still generous). Personally, I would love to work for a company willing to support such a generous policy. But for issues such as profit, liability, and sheer survival, these companies have supported generous, but realistic warranties.

Not everyone realizes that some companies as a policy don't discount the products they sale (or rarely). In some cases, for manufacturers, the price of their products are above a "realistic" price for the products they make. Part of their reasoning is to subsidize their unlimited return policy. This is perfectly fine, but not everyone understands this.

Companies making products in the middle of the quality spectrum literally fight for survival (especially ones that are smaller or moderate in size). To stay in business, they need to keep their retail prices down and competitive. And in the case of their warranty, they need to make tough decisions relative to post-sale support. Many of them offer liberal support (SOG did while I managed these services), but just can't offer everything wanted from every customer.

While managing SOG's customer service, I made sure that I gave every possible concession while supporting the policy of the ownership, without giving away freebies that were not supported by the warranty. Personally, I pushed that policy to the most liberal interpretation possible (probably crossing the line many times). What they do now, I don't know.

This is a hard "pill" to swallow, but is the realistic side of business. I hope I have given a peek inside the typical business. I understand that not everyone will either understand or agree, but it is in many cases, it is reality.

One thing I had meant to state in my original post is that SOG will analyze any product for defects in craftsmanship or materials. If a defect is found (and this has happened, but in cases like this are more on the rare side), a replacement is sent out.
 
Ron Andersen said:
AG has once again shown his generosity. As a career manager in customer service, this is certainly the level of service I would love to give, but to date, I have yet to work for a company where the ownership supported such policy.
Nordstrom has revised their return policy to be a bit more realistic (but still generous). Personally, I would love to work for a company willing to support such a generous policy. But for issues such as profit, liability, and sheer survival, these companies have supported generous, but realistic warranties.

Not everyone realizes that some companies as a policy don't discount the products they sale (or rarely). In some cases, for manufacturers, the price of their products are above a "realistic" price for the products they make. Part of their reasoning is to subsidize their unlimited return policy. This is perfectly fine, but not everyone understands this.

Companies making products in the middle of the quality spectrum literally fight for survival (especially ones that are smaller or moderate in size). To stay in business, they need to keep their retail prices down and competitive. And in the case of their warranty, they need to make tough decisions relative to post-sale support. Many of them offer liberal support (SOG did while I managed these services), but just can't offer everything wanted from every customer.

This is a hard "pill" to swallow, but is the realistic side of business. I hope I have given a peek inside the typical business. I understand that not everyone will either understand or agree, but it is in many cases, it is reality.

One thing I had meant to state in my original post is that SOG will analyze any product for defects in craftsmanship or materials. If a defect is found (and this has happened, but in cases like this are more on the rare side), a replacement is sent out.
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The largest knife catalog does not even have a guarantee, what they have is a return police: "Return in new condition in two weeks (or a month) in the original packaging" They also may still charge a re-stocking fee.

In the 1960s and early 1970s I was charging full retail, as the only knife mail order company I knew nothing about discount and did not need to. Then the San Diego Knife Co began discounting Gerbers 25% when ever the owner was free and could run his business.

Many of todays knife sellers offer really good customer service. One of their problems is that they do not have a good way to dispose of returned knives. We of course have the Cutting Edge and cuttingedge.com.

I have always thought that our superior customer service and great guarantee was worth a few more dollors per knife. Many customers do not agree and come to us for information and then buy where ever is cheapest. We overcome this with unique knives that can be bought no where else.
 
AG,

There is no doubt that you are among the best in this industry; if not THE best! I highly respect you and your company!
A. G. Russell said:
The largest knife catalog does not even have a guarantee, what they have is a return police: "Return in new condition in two weeks (or a month) in the original packaging" They also may still charge a re-stocking fee.
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I don't see this as a bad thing. Actually, I see it as what should be the standard. It is not for on-line retailers to offer a warranty against defects in craftsmanship or craftsmanship. That is for the manufacturers. So, if a knife breaks which has been bought (at full MSRP or a serious discount) and that knife breaks, I would expect that customer to follow the warranty policy of the manufacturer...that is most often to return the knife to them for review. The only time I would expect the knife to be returned to the on-line retailer is if they did not like the knife and if it were still in new/resalable condition (and within a set period of time makes sense). And regarding a restocking fee? I could certainly understand that if the on-line retailer sells at a serious discount. These are reasonable policies.

I believe on-line retailers offer a beneficial service. There are many people who don't have the money to pay MSRP (manufacturers suggested retail price) for the quantity of knives they wish to buy. So they are willing to endure a few less perks through the company from which they are buying and make their knife purchases through these companies. I disagree with some manufacturers who believes that having their products discounted (period) "cheapens" their image. What it does is gets their "fine" products into the hands of more knife enthusiasts. I do agree, though, with not allowing those products being sold into mainline retail giants (Walmart, etc.) who specialize in "cheap products." Having their product being sold along side of the cheapest crap there is, does cheapen their image.
 
Ron Andersen said:
AG,

There is no doubt that you are among the best in this industry; if not THE best! I highly respect you and your company!I don't see this as a bad thing. Actually, I see it as what should be the standard. It is not for on-line retailers to offer a warranty against defects in craftsmanship or craftsmanship. That is for the manufacturers. So, if a knife breaks which has been bought (at full MSRP or a serious discount) and that knife breaks, I would expect that customer to follow the warranty policy of the manufacturer...that is most often to return the knife to them for review. The only time I would expect the knife to be returned to the on-line retailer is if they did not like the knife and if it were still in new/resalable condition (and within a set period of time makes sense). And regarding a restocking fee? I could certainly understand that if the on-line retailer sells at a serious discount. These are reasonable policies.
I believe on-line retailers offer a beneficial service. There are many people who don't have the money to pay MSRP (manufacturers suggested retail price) for the quantity of knives they wish to buy. So they are willing to endure a few less perks through the company from which they are buying and make their knife purchases through these companies. I disagree with some manufacturers who believes that having their products discounted (period) "cheapens" their image. What it does is gets their "fine" products into the hands of more knife enthusiasts. I do agree, though, with not allowing those products being sold into mainline retail giants (Walmart, etc.) who specialize in "cheap products." Having their product being sold along side of the cheapest crap there is, does cheapen their image.
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I do not know of anyone today who can charge MSRP and stay in business. With Wal-Mart, SMKW and others who can offer nothing except the lowest price we all have to live in this world and try to balance price, service, and what ever else we can offer. Having been here in this business for over 40 years now and just having ended the best year we have ever had, I think I can say that we seem to have worked out a balance that works for the customers.
 
A. G. Russell said:
I do not know of anyone today who can charge MSRP and stay in business.
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I guess I should have qualified my statement to say "close" to MSRP. :) The gist was to have a high-to-low comparison (those who charge a "premium" versus those who offer the lowest prices possible). I guess in my old age, I still make mistakes.
 
Ron Andersen said:
I guess I should have qualified my statement to say "close" to MSRP. :) The gist was to have a high-to-low comparison (those who charge a "premium" versus those who offer the lowest prices possible). I guess in my old age, I still make mistakes.
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Why should you be any different than the rest of us?
 
A. G. Russell said:
I have always thought that our superior customer service and great guarantee was worth a few more dollors per knife. Many customers do not agree and come to us for information and then buy where ever is cheapest. We overcome this with unique knives that can be bought no where else.
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Many people will not subscribe to that until they have either: a) Come across a story like this one, or b) had a problem themselves (even minor). That's when some of the discount stores clam up.:mad:

BTW you really do have some excellent information!!! :D
 
Not so good, I'm having trouble laying my hands on a digital camera. I'll have them as soon as I possibly can.
 
Metul said:
Not so good, I'm having trouble laying my hands on a digital camera. I'll have them as soon as I possibly can.
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When you get your hands on one, I'd be interested in seeing a couple "marco" images of the steel where it broke. If it's a good picture, it might (small chance only) reveal if the break had anything to do with materials.
 
A. G. Russell said:
I hope that the copy on hammering did not appear on my web site or catalog. Anybody who uses a pommel for a hammer and tears up his fingers on the nail will bleed without my feeling any pain. I learned better before I was a teen ager.

Why are some of you expressing doubt about what I will do about this mans return.

We will replace it or refund his money, if he plans to go on throwing it we will refund his money and suggest that he buy the replaceent somewhere else. Lots of great throwing knives out there with spring timper. No hunting knife, tempered to hold an edge is going to stand up to throwing.

Any one who is honest enough to confess to throwing (instead of "dropping it on the carpet" or "just cutting soft pine") should find that honesty rewarded.

A. G.
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"We will replace it or refund his money"

WE? I am new here, could you please send the url to your web site please?

With service like that I am interested in using you for future purchases.
thank you
 
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