soldering tutorial video

J

jasperdog032469

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Mar 14, 2007
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I have read all the great advice on here about soldering a guard, and have had absolutely no success. I've literally tried everything. Have had people say they could show me, only to ruin my blades, which I usually end up doing anyway, so no biggie. Normally I am trying to solder brass or nickle silver to 440c. I am using the flux and silver solder that you can buy thru Jantz, and using a map gas torch. I'm just lost, and wish like hell I didn't have 20+ blades made up that I either have to do this with. Made them all to where I could make stick tangs by welding all thread to them and mainly just ruining one after another!

I remember reading that someone was going to make a video, but can't find it anywhere.
 
First, lose the Mapp gas. Much too hot. My guess is, you are burning your flux away before the solder can flow. Bring the heat up slowly. What is the flow temp of the solder you're using? Is this silver braze, or silver bearing solder? If silver bearing solder, be generous with the flux. If it is turning brown or black, it is burning away. As soon as you see this, add more flux and ease back on the heat. Give the metal a chance to get hot enough to melt the solder by touching it to the metal, and not just from the flame. Use an ice pick to spread the solder in a joint. Don't scimp on flux.
 
I admit I have not much experience in soldering guards. I soldered I believe three, but they ended up nice.
I used tin, not silver solder (it's melting point is much lower).
I have a lot of experience in soldering electronic components, though, and good experience in brazing.

In order of temperature, you have:

soft soldering, uses tin alloy: 250-450 °C
hard soldering (brazing) uses silver or brass alloys: 650-850 °C
Welding (forge, electric or oxygas) uses steel near or beyond melting point, varying with alloy.

Letting the parts get hot enough to melt the alloy is the single most important aspect of the whole process.
You must get the parts (both of them) hot enough that the alloy melts when touching them (with maybe a little help from the torch in brazing).
What most people don't realize is that it's not the flame of the torch that must melt the alloy: it's the base metal itself.
If you try soldering or brazing while the base metal isn't hot enough to melt the alloy, and let the torch melt it, the alloy will solidify as soon as it touches the metal without wetting it, and the solder/braze won't take. It's usually called a "cold weld" (even if it's soldering or brazing, I believe)
If you try to solder or braze cold metal, you are facing failure.

The flux is also a factor, and is much different with soldering and brazing. You can't use soldering flux while brazing, and vice versa.
What alloy are you using?
Moreover, soldering or brazing on SS can be a PITA. I did my soldering on carbon steel.
Also, make sure both parts are squeaking clean.
Cleanliness is everything.
Last but not least, the smaller the gap between the parts, the better the joint. A minimum of space must exist to let the solder penetrate, but not much.
 
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I am preparing to solder a guard very soon.....This is good info for me too. Thanks!

Brad
 
Silver bearing solder begins at 221C. I have never found stainless any more difficult than regular carbon, and I have never been anal about cleaning, as long as the metal is freshly sanded a bit.
 
PS: I believe silver solder is too hot to solder guards on a HTd blade. I used tin solder for that reason. I had to move a brass guard on a tang, after I soldered it with tin, and tried displacing it with hammer blows, failing miserably. If it's properly soldered, it's SOLID.
 
LRB said:
Silver bearing solder begins at 221C. I have never found stainless any more difficult than regular carbon, and I have never been anal about cleaning, as long as the metal is freshly sanded a bit.
Click to expand...

Maybe we are talking different alloys... The one I have requires oxygas to melt, and it's at least 700 °C... :confused:
Sanded is very good, as anything that could contaminate the weld is gone.
 
If you are using silver solder with a melting temp. of 420-440 deg.F use a heat gun for your heat source. It takes a few minutes to get up to heat but it will work great.

Make sure the knife and guard are completely clean, if water beads on the parts it isn't clean enough. I use 4000 grit polishing paper and household cleaner(409 type stuff) and rub the daylights out of everything. The 4000grit paper will not scratch your finish even a mirror finish.

Take care

Charles
 
Stated above but worth repeating. I used to have great difficulty soldering.
Now I can properly use hard then medium then easy silver solder for jewelry work that requires that sequence. Now I can honestly say it's easy.
I was given the same advice over and over again but the stubborness in me kept me in limbo.
It really is simple:
Soldering parts and solder must be clean. This is an absolute. I use a cleaner (mild acid).
The gap that is being soldered must be barely visible...most often just the crack indicating discontinuity of the surface.
The heat is gentle and starts away from the spot that need to be soldered.
with experience you will note that the flux (I like the paste) bubbles as you bring the heat from the opposite side and start getting close to your joint. just as the flux looks like it's going to dry or evaporate touch your solder to the area with a pick and watch it melt and jump into the crack. I do add a bit more heat for a few seconds as the older is introduced. Done.
It's all about being clean, heat from the opposite side, timing of the flux, timing of the accelerated miniheat.
Once you "get it"...soldering will take so little of your time and will be routine to the point of being relaxing.
You can use many sources for heat but I like the butane torches or if you get into jewelry as well...one of the mini oxy/acet or oxy/prop torches.
 
Hard solder is not appropriate for soldering guards. Using a silver-bearing solder and Stay Clean flux makes the job easy. If your blade is mirror polished, roughing the area to be soldered will help. Of course, it has to be clean. Clipping the solder into short pieces and placing it on the joint before heating might make it easier. Both parts should be brought to temperature together, evenly. If one part is more massive, heat it first-but try to keep the temp of the parts equal. If you draw a line with a soft lead pencil, the solder won't cross it-unless you use too much solder. MAPP gas is OK, as long as you turn it down. Soldering requires gentle heat.
 
A word on "gentle heat".
As I said, I have very good and long experience in soldering electronic components. On some components, you must not overheat the component, or it will be damaged.
Many try therefore to keep low on heat, but the solution is counter-intuitive.
What you have to do, if the component or the part where you have to solder it is massive (in proportion to an electronic circuit) is to keep heat UP.
This to heat up the portion to be soldered before the heat expands to the part.
The same I believe applies here: if you keep the heat too low, you'll heat the whole blade, unless you keep it in water, while with a torch you'll get the part up to soldering heat before the blade heats up.
 
I don't have any experience with this first hand, but I saw the Steve Johnson subhilt fighter video, and he uses a heat gun and a low temp solder. He points the heat gun at the bottom of the guard. The flux starts to look like it's drying out, then it will bubble again and at that point it just flows right in there. He then uses the tip of a scribe or something to paint/spread it into the joint.

Hope that helps.

Oh, and Steve is using a stainless steel (410?) for his guard and subhilt.
 
I've soldered silver to brass, silver to silver, brass to stainless, making jewelry, using silver (hard) solder-- have never been able to get StayBrite to work-- and now am looking at trying to solder guards onto 100 or so 440C and 1095 blades. Unlike welding, soldering requires the entire area to be heated, not just the joint seam, or the heat will run away from the joint too fast for the solder to flow. Pre-heat the area a bit after cleaning it well, flux it while it's at a low heat till the flux gets dry and frosty-looking, then lay on the little squares of solder, which themselves should be fluxed as well-- 1/8 by 1/8 max (they melt faster)-- and bring the area up to temp. Dunno yet how to keep the heat from moving down into the blade and messing up the temper. The how-to writers whose work I have seen all seem to finesse this. Maybe the vise acts as a heat sink? Use Heat Fence, that magic putty that is sold for this? A wet rag around the blade? We shall see what we shall see. Onward!! Practice on scrap, not your precious blades!!
 
Thanks for all the great advice, everybody. Gonna go give it another shot...till the blood pressure starts rising again anyway..lol.
 
jasperdog....best of luck! Sounds like there is some good advice to follow now for us both. Let us know how it works out. My project will be a couple weeks out at least but now it isn't looming over like it was!!!

Brad
 
Miles-Stay Clean is a soft solder flux. It won't work for hard soldering-different processes.


There is much confusion about silver solder. Real silver solder is a hard solder-not suitable for soldering guards. Silver-bearing solder is soft solder with a small amount of silver added to enhance adhesion.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
Miles-Stay Clean is a soft solder flux. It won't work for hard soldering-different processes.


There is much confusion about silver solder. Real silver solder is a hard solder-not suitable for soldering guards. Silver-bearing solder is soft solder with a small amount of silver added to enhance adhesion.
Click to expand...

Got it. It's probably similar to the electronics solder we get after the introduction of ROHS normatives.
 
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