Some hearsay about coldsteel

Here we go again. I have been lurking here for years and have posted a couple times in the past. I will do so here again and will let the flaming begin.

Before anyone here questions how I will qualify my statements- I am very framiliar with CS, its staff, its practices, and its management. I really don't feel comfortable explaining further than that since I still have a relationship with them and I don't want them feeling like I am telling stories out of school.

First- I find it very doubtful that anyone in the CS company took a bribe to sell 2nds as 1sts. 2nds are clearly marked at the factory as such. Most products are inspected upon arrival at the warehouse as well and if needed, are marked as 2nds. I can tell you that if a product does not meet inspected standards, they are either sent back and destroyed or marked as 2nds.

Second- QC- CS does a pretty good job about their QC. Lynn Thompson is commited to selling a quality product. To do so, the company has to take some effort to meet his commitment. Do some knives slip through the cracks. Of course. They are a mass production company and when things are mass produced, occaisional errors occur. I can tell you that the actual return rate is extremely low. Unless a knife has been obviously abused, it is usually taken care of to the customer's satisfaction.

Third- Warranty- Yes, I know that at first galnce the warranty seems a little thin. But let's look at what a warranty actually is. Not a guarantee of quality, but a reflection of the ease and cost of replacement. I use Kia as an example. KIA has a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty. Wow, there cars must be great, right? Not as such, but the parts and the cars themselves are cheap to replace. CS spends quite a bit on R&D and production. they are also aware that their knives are made to be worked and worked hard. Knives wear out under use. That is a fact and to not accept that is to not accept the laws of physics. CS warranty reflects the notion that if there is a manufacturing flaw, it will become evident within 1 year for folders and 5 years for fixed. And while I cannot say it for the record, I know that the company will do everything it can to keep a customer happy, even beyond the warranty.

Finally- More Proof- Love it or hate it, it has worked brilliantly for the company. I know how much time and effort they spend to produce the videos and their success is the reason the videos are the flagship of their advertising. You think its boring or dumb or repetive, ok. I find that most who berate the videos don't like the company to begin with and if Lynn was handing out dollar bills with every knife you would still think the company sucks. There is nothing they can do to win you over and you are not the market they are going for. They want the new customer, the customer who is really tired of crappy knives, and the fans of CS. Would they like to win over a CS Detractor? Of course they would, but they realize that that fight is, for the most part, a losing one. Just ask a Chevy fan what he thinks of Ford, and vice-versa. As far as the "repeating these tests can void your warranty" issue- please be intellectually honest. If you chip or break you knife where there is something wrong with the manufacture, like a stress fracture, etc., it will be replaced. You bend a knife 60 degrees in a vice or punch it through a steel drum or do 50 tip snaps or do your own weight tests against the locks, then no... that is abuse and why should they cover it. They already did it for you.

My 2 cents. Let the flaming begin.
 
DngrRuss1 said:
...why should they cover it.
Because they said the knife could do it and promote it on this basis, thus as the consumer you have the right to such performance.

To clarify, in repeating a test you are checking to see if the performance matches the promoted one, not that the blade doesn't get effected.

If you for example bend it in a vice and it matches the promoted behavior you don't ask for a warrenty replacement, it did as it was promoted.

If however it breaks significantly sooner, then the warrenty should cover that because you got a defective knife - it didn't behave as it was promoted.

-Cliff
 
My 2 cents. Let the flaming begin.

I forsee zero fire danger here.
In response to your statement about the videos and those who dont like them being already set against CS (I was the one who said they were repetitive), I would have to make the observation that, if you like the video(s), you either have a job on an assembly line and love repetiton, or you already love Lynn Thompson. (Or you are 12-13 years old.) :D They are mind numbingly dull, and that is just a simple observation, not a reflection of pre-established antipathy towards CS. I ordered the DVDs because I was interested in seeing them, but I dont know how anyone could sit and watch one in its entirety.
 
Cliff, your point is a bit falicious. CS states that "some of these tests demonstrate gross abuse of the knife". So, if you plan on doing your own testing, demonstrate "gross abuse", damage the knife, as is often the result in the video, and then expect the company to pay for your gross abuse by replacing the product, you are asking too much of both the company and the warranty.

When a company, be it a knife company or any other product, states that they will replace our product no matter how it was damaged, I contend that this is a sales ploy based on the cost of replacement more than the faith in the product.

As for the video being repetitive- no argument there. Fortunately with the DVD, one can select the chapters he is interested in and no need to go through the whole thing like the old VHS. Although I have spoken to people that sit and watch the whole DVD more than once. And I must admit, my first thought is, "you need to get out more."
 
This isn't really any different than an SUV manufacturer showing hours of commercials (or really the same commercial) featuring their SUV leaping off cliffs, driving over piles of rocks, dashing madly through water-filled ditches, and more.

And at the bottom of the screen... "Do not attempt."

Because if you do, you violate the warranty on the vehicle.

Yet, we can expect hours more of video showing "professional drivers on a closed course" doing exactly what you shouldn't do.

Because it works.

Okay. We get it. Some of you don't like Cold Steel, some of you don't like Lynn Thompson, and some of you hate the video.

The rest of us get it, already. Let's move on....because there are a whole lot more important knife-related topics out there than this.
 
DngrRuss1 said:
So, if you plan on doing your own testing, demonstrate "gross abuse", damage the knife, as is often the result in the video, and then expect the company to pay for your gross abuse by replacing the product, you are asking too much of both the company and the warranty.
Yeah, you would be, but that is not what I said. I'll repeat it since you missed it the first time :

To clarify, in repeating a test you are checking to see if the performance matches the promoted one, not that the blade doesn't get effected.

If you for example bend it in a vice and it matches the promoted behavior you don't ask for a warrenty replacement, it did as it was promoted.

If however it breaks significantly sooner, then the warrenty should cover that because you got a defective knife - it didn't behave as it was promoted.
-Cliff
 
Back on subject, I've never owned a CS knife, so I can't objectively comment on anything about the actual quality of the knives, save from the fact that 420J isn't exactly the best steel to use, Sub-Zero quehcned or not.

I've got to admit, some of their japanese styled blades (both large and small) have appealing properties, but I'm sure I can find better elsewhere should the need arise.

The breaking point that turned me off of CS though was the recent obvious copies of other maker's knives. Specifically the Black Talon ripoff of the Spyderco Civilian/Matriarch, and the ripoff of Brian Tighe's Tighe Stick (don't know what it's called). Pretty blatent and disrespectful. :barf:

I still want an Arc Angel, but now I'm pretty conflicted.
 
Back to the original topic, I'm slightly concerned.
It is nice to hear that CS is not selling factory 2nds as Factory firsts. But I have a feeling that the contrary may be true. My dad has ordered several knives from them, all factory seconds, and so far not one of them have been labled with a "2" or anything to indicate that it did not meet the QC's standards.
I have seen a Kobun, a Recon Tanto, a Carbon V Peace Keeper, and one of their throwers and not one of them have been labled as seconds. Mind you these are just the knives my dad has shown me. He could have several more by now.
So what exactly is going on at this end of the spectrum? Seeing unlabled 2nd's makes the idea of 2nds sold as firsts much more plausable.
Oh, and don't blame my dad's choice of knives on me. I got him a mini-grip for Christmas.
-KC
 
Seconds are sold on Ebay to the unsuspecting all the time. To protect yourself if you are looking for a particular knife is to find out from the maker or manufacture where and how they mark their factory seconds. Cold Steel burns #2 into the bottom end of the handles. United Cutlery stamps a #2 on the back side of the blades. Case in point, United Cutlery Kenpo Karate knife seconds were being sold on Ebay frequently. Some sellers were hitting the #2 mark on a grinder for example. Then the sellers were describing the marked out areas as a "blemish". So if you know how and where a certain knife is marked if it is a second, then you know where to look.

Teej
 
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