Some nice old axe handles

Woodcraft said:
Try doing all the research. All handles in the hardware store are hickory. So all this "controversy" as you put it is not for nothing. Most axes you see on this forum have hickory handles. Hickory and ash SHOULD have to be oriented with the end grain towards the strike. For multiple reasons.
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For all practical purposes, hickory is just as strong, and resilient no matter the grain orientation. I personally don't believe that a baseball will delaminate hickory either.
 
I plan on doing some experimentation with black locust for handle material. Rates similar to hickory in most of its statistics except for being more weather resistant.
 
quinton said:
For all practical purposes, hickory is just as strong, and resilient no matter the grain orientation. I personally don't believe that a baseball will delaminate hickory either.
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Any wood will delaminate. Ring porous or otherwise. I have posted a picture here of my maple "club" suffering from delamination after being used as a drift pounder. Hitting a one inch spot on to a wooden drift did the trick. Ring porous woods delaminate far more easily. Like Ash and hickory. Granted it may take far longer for hickory than Ash, but it happens. Hit a 80+ mph fastball with a stick swinging 60+ mph against the face and not the end grain in the same area over and over and it will delaminate.
 
Black locust will work just fine, probably better than anything we have in Europe. The only downside I see is that once dry it will dull cutting tools fast. However, no matter the wood...better to work it green.
 
I just snagged the images that came up first in a search. Seems to me it is extremely obvious once you start looking why not only to avoid run out but also orientation is important in a ax handle.















 
phantomknives said:
woodcraft i'v never seen so much pain in one post
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Strangely pictures of broken tool handle aren't as abundant as I thought they would be on the internet. I think if we were to take the time. Perhaps start a thread. We could answer a couple of the questions or debated points with photographic evidence.
 
I have not noticed the oxidation or loosening of heads with the black locust. Maybe it is there between inside of the eye and the steel and I can't see it.

The yew has very little abrasion resistance. It's a soft wood. I have used it for such things a hewing hatchets and setting tools. There is next to no strength at all in the sap wood and I believe it should be removed completely for an axe handle. All primitive cultures removed the sap wood when they made bows from it. It was only the English longbow that kept the sap wood on as a backing. It's so soft it can easily be dented with a finger nail but it's not going to fail under tension.

I suspect that the Osage maybe the best handle material a guy could it. If only it grew straight enough to avoid run out. Hard, heavy, tuff and flexible. The weight can simply be over come by making a thinner haft. If I lived where it was plentiful most of my hatchets would have Osage hafts.
 
Kevin Houtzager said:
Moonw: For your info: Black Locust is called Robinia in Europe, so it tend to grow here (holland) and where you are at (Hungary/Romania) a lot. So you can get it. I would only rate the Taxus/Yew above it, but just slightly. Slightly below it you'll get european oak and ash in Europe. Hardest wood: Ebony followed bij Azobe, both from Afrika. Both hold up well, but are actually to heavy for long hafts and give of way to much vibration. For shorter hafts they are virtually unbreakable!
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Thanks. Yep, it's everywhere, for me it's the most impressive "common wood". All kind of posts made out of it when my grandparents were young :), and they just won't rot.

I also know the name, because every time I want to translate a tree from US into my language I go through the scientific name. It gets tricky with hornbeam vs hop hornbeam for example :), otherwise.
 
Kevin Houtzager said:
As for the black locust: It's only on the inside an on the colloring of the wood in the eye.

Most of the shock absorbtion should come from the sap wood in yew, so you'll need both in a handle and wel as in a bow. The English made longbow with it, containing about 50% sapwood, so your statement is incorrect. But then again: There not primitive either. It isn't as soft as it would seam though, as european yew is about 820kg/m3 which is slightly more then Robinia/Black Locust.

Osage orange is a thad weaker then european yew since it's about 775kg/m3 Thats slightly above hickory, but below Robinia/Black locust.

As somebody else concluded in another topic, Yew looks different then the yew you got. Thats because American yew is a different species alltogether. Even west coast and east coast yew differ in strength.

So for Europe it should be yew. For America it should be Robinia/Black Locust as the strongest/best wood for an axe haft.

And no, it's not based on feeling: Just stating the facts of the wood itself.
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Not even sure where to start.

I can say I have gained a lot of knowledge from yew.

This right here is the problem with the internet. Folks read a book and they think they know what is going on. But they have little or no real experience. And almost all the post above is just wrong.

I have been working with osage and yew for about twenty five years now. Yew almost exclusively for the past ten. And I have been doing it wrong all along. If only I had talked to you Kevin.


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garry3 said:
I have not noticed the oxidation or loosening of heads with the black locust. Maybe it is there between inside of the eye and the steel and I can't see it.
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I don't think it's a problem, either. How many of us thoroughly clean an axe eye of rust when using a wirebrush? I surely don't.
 
FWIW, I saw one guy carving a handle out of yew and it failed in very short order. It's only an example, but alos none of the older guys ever used it as an axe handle. There must be a reason for that.
 
Square_peg said:
Hickory is still better than black locust for an axe handle. Better modulus of elasticity and better modulus of rupture in dry wood.
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If it only grew here :). I wouldn't think twice, but I'd still wouldn't throw away a nice black locust stave.

In practice, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between the two, unless I was pushing both to their limits. Someone going crazy like an ape with one would find out sooner I suppose.
 
Here is a refurbished axe posted on another venue. I mean no disrespect to the poster and I think he/she did a great job. And I am willing to change my mind (I'm just a hobbyist woodworker).

That said, I think this handle is an example of what to avoid in selecting a handle. The handle was said to be the top grade, hand selected by the manufacturer.

The composite picture below shows the end grain on each end. The picture of the top end was flipped to show a mirror image. That way you don't have to do the mental gymnastics to visualize the orientation change from one end to the other. The butt shot was said to illustrate the "perfect grain"of the handle. But looking at both ends there is a change, at least a twist in the handle grain orientation.




Next are views of each side of the handle. The picture of the right side of the handle (left picture) shows a beautiful grain pattern for something like a piece of furniture. But for a handle I think it is a poor choice (runout city).



Also, the light wood on the handle near the head (left photo) could just be sap wood, but looks punky to me. There is not enough resolution in the photo to magnify it for a better look. IIRC, punky spots on new handles has been reported before on this forum. I have had the experience of Hickory doing that faster than other wood types laying on the ground.


Bob
 
Moonw said:
If it only grew here :). I wouldn't think twice, but I'd still wouldn't throw away a nice black locust stave.
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No, me neither. In fact I have several black locust staves drying right now. Nothing better grows in these parts. I also have some elm drying, next best locally available wood.
 
rjdankert said:
Here is a refurbished axe posted on another venue. I mean no disrespect to the poster and I think he/she did a great job. And I am willing to change my mind (I'm just a hobbyist woodworker).

That said, I think this handle is an example of what to avoid in selecting a handle. The handle was said to be the top grade, hand selected by the manufacturer.

The composite picture below shows the end grain on each end. The picture of the top end was flipped to show a mirror image. That way you don't have to do the mental gymnastics to visualize the orientation change from one end to the other. The butt shot was said to illustrate the "perfect grain"of the handle. But looking at both ends there is a change, at least a twist in the handle grain orientation.




Next are views of each side of the handle. The picture of the right side of the handle (left picture) shows a beautiful grain pattern for something like a piece of furniture. But for a handle I think it is a poor choice (runout city).



Also, the light wood on the handle near the head (left photo) could just be sap wood, but looks punky to me. There is not enough resolution in the photo to magnify it for a better look. IIRC, punky spots on new handles has been reported before on this forum. I have had the experience of Hickory doing that faster than other wood types laying on the ground.


Bob
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If it doesn't break it will probably warp. I suspect it may be heart wood, which I don't believe is as good as the sap. But I confess to picking an all heart wood handle up on occasion just because I can't resist some of the unusual colors.
 
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