Some questions from FNG

S

sigurd

Joined
Jun 24, 2000
Messages
47
Are REKAT going to treat the D2 cryogenic?

What shape has the HWs and neck knives' edges got? (straight, convex or concave)

Where can I find a knife dictionary? (I suspect "hollow ground" is the term for concave edge?)

What advantages/disadvantages does the modified D2 have over ATS-34 and 1095?

When will the REKAT site be up again?

Are any of the steels "hammered" by people or have been? Or how are they elseway shaped?
 
Sigurd, the best knife dictionary that I have found is at www.agrussell.com and is generally a very useful reference source.

By "hammered", I presume that you mean "forged" or heated and pounded out on an anvil with a hammer in hte traditional smith fashion, as opposed to "stock removal" where a blade blank is roughed out of the steel and then ground down, heat-treated, tempered, polished, etc. There are any number of arguments as to the advantages of forging over stock-removal and vice-versa. If you wish to check them out, go to the "General Discussion" forum and check out the archives, looking up the words "forging", "forge", or "stock-removal". Or, if you are brave enough, you could ask why people prefer forging (or stock-removal) to the other. But be prepared for quite a fight. I have been involved in them and they get quite vehement. But they are fun, especially when they bring out old pros like Jerry Fisk, as has happened in the past. He is a Master Bladesmith at http://fisk-knives.com/ and I recommend that you look in on his site just to drool over his work.

------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller

[This message has been edited by FullerH (edited 06-27-2000).]
 
The gametracker and bowie was my favorites. exeptional.
Yes I meant (hand)forged. In Norway the word is smidd. (å (to) "smi" in a "smie" or has "smidd") Thanks for the tips ill look into it. Forge is a nice word, along with anvil, too.
 
Actually, ALL steel knives are at *some* point "forged".

In handmade knives, there's always a basic debate between makers that use "heat'n'beat" techniques of handforging, shaping the metal while red-hot, and the "grinder guys" that use factory slabs ("billets") of steel and grind away metal until you have a knife (known as "stock removal").

REKAT is firmly in the "grinder guy" camp.

Thing is, the raw billets of steel REKAT buys *have* been massaged with "heat'n'beat", at an industrial forge under 5 ton or greater powerhammers. REKAT and other stock-removal makers feel that the basic consistency of the core steel is difficult to reproduce with hand-forging, although by no means impossible.

Stock removal techniques "waste metal" but allow faster shaping of complex curves and bevels. In a modern industrial nation, the labor costs saved with stock removal more than equal the extra expense in metal lost at the grinding wheel. In a 3rd world nation like Nepal, the economics are just the opposite: steel is relatively expensive versus labor costs and forging is still a common art form. And since they're so good at it and produce desirable "traditional pattern" blades that way, it's all good.

One last factor: modern "high tech" steels like ATS34, D2, BG42, 440C and such can only be heat-treated ONCE after leaving the factory. If you screw up the heat-treat, it's hosed...and that means any attempt to do heat'n'beat "uses up" your one shot at a proper heat treat. That said, every once in a while a forge-technique master proves this wrong
smile.gif
but in general, that's how it is.

Aaaanyhow. For a good working/carry knife at a fair price, made in the USA out of a good steel, you're going to be buying stock removal, with very rare exceptions.

Jim
 
Thanks for the answers. 5ton powerhammer sounds cool. I believe I read something around here about a guy who forges ATS-34 and there even was mentioned an article about it in some magazine. Nothing conclusive about the quality versus stock-removal, though. It didnt pass the 90degrees bending test. Will stock-removed 1095, D2 or the modified D2 do that? Just an additional question: Does REKAT differentially heat-treat their knives?

hmmm... that they can only be heated once after leaving the factory: does that mean they are "cold-rolled" into shape just after the melting process? Ooohhh I sure would like to see how they make steel. My dad works in a (whats the word..) iron melting factory here in norway. they make engine parts and other huge things.
oooofff the topic.
 
Hey, Sigurd, there is areally neat article over on the Benchmade website ( www.benchmade.com ) that discusses, in layman's terms, the metallurgy of crucible steels like CPM440V. For the first time, I think that I understand them. Bring up the site, go down the menu on the left side until you get to "Articles" and then look for "Metallurgy". Click on it.

Jim, while I generally agree with you about "heat-n-beat", I did like what Jerry Fisk had to say about distal tapers and I do LOVE my Randalls, which are forged knives. I accept that the newer "wonder steels" likely do not yield well to forging. Note to self: ask my smith friend how he thinks the 440V Native that I gave him would do being forged.

------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller

[This message has been edited by FullerH (edited 06-28-2000).]
 
It's my understanding that the ultra-modern steels like 440V/420V, BG42 and others are the ones least likely to do well under hand-forging.

Randall is a die-hard forge shop; most of their stuff is good ol' 01 tool steel, which is just barely "simple" enough that it hand-forges OK. Their stainless forged pieces are 440B, an oddball grade pretty much nobody else uses because it's a "forge-able stainless". It works though...but it's worth the high price only because "it's a Randall" and you're paying a premium for the name, the hand-fitting, the balance, etc. Doesn't mean you're getting ripped off, but that's just not REKAT's market.

The best "forger's steel" for big knives and swords that need a lot of toughness is 5160, also known as "basic automotive leaf spring steel". According to the bladesmiths at Himalayan Imports, Mercedes spring metallurgy is better than any others, with Volvo a close second
smile.gif
. It sounds hilarious, but I've got some HI pieces and lemme tell ya, it's GOOD stuff
smile.gif
. Laugh all you want about 3rd-world "piece of Chevy" bladesmithing, the results are awesome.

If an American smith like Bob Brothers put that much time into hand-forging big blades, few here could afford the results. Hence stock-removal.

Jim
 
I like your comment about spring-steel. I have had a truck-spring knife myself, and it simply didnt compare to anything else. It was a "samekniv" (same=lapp in norwegian) or "finnkniv" (as they call it in northern norway:') made by a lapp in karasjok, I think his name is Strømeng. Helle has got some bad ripoffs of this style.http://www.helleknives.com/product16.html
These are really boring to use.
The strømeng knives are not too expensive, and if you need a knife for just about everything that feels like a living creature, you should grab a hold of one of these. Strømeng also makes stainless sameknivs, but I think half the venture of these knives are the special steel. I heard rumors that he uses Scania springs. They are a masterful chopper. Not distant tapered.

Price in Norway is about 45-50$.
I think rosseli makes a similar knife, http://www.roselli.fi/fin/products/LE.html
They are probably more similar to the traditional knife in the steel type at least.
 
Forging is not limited to simple steels, there are people forging very complicated steels, including 10V which has to be one of the most complex, and even Cobalt 6BH (Talonite). Heat treating stainless is not a one shot either, it can be redone you just need to do over from the start which you don't have to do on the simpler steels.

-Cliff
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top