Some questions on newest Mil-Over blades

mymindisamob

mymindisamob

Platinum Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
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Looking @ the newest over-runs, and started wondering. What theater of military activity has a call for the Muddy or Sage finishes? I think we all know where Tan is mandatory. I just haven't seen this in any of the more commonly known operations, or mentioned here in the forums.
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Another thing I was noticing, on the Muddy knives (ie. MMS & MAD), the slabs appear to be a darker Tan or even Brown Canvas. The Sages seem to have the Black Canvas. Anyone know for sure?:confused:

Lastly, will any of the Almighty, up on Mount INFIlympus be willing to tell this lowly swine if Muddy is going to ever be offered as a regular option?
 
Light green might be required in Pakistan in the non desert areas, same thing with Iraq, in the north, I think. Of course, we'll never REALLY know.
The SOWs are sent to the special Oompa Loompa and the Terrorist Clown deanimating special forces. Same thing with the fire wardens and Black/Yellow GWs.
 
Remember that Iraqistan is not the only area where our troops are working...it's just the only one on the news at present.

I suspect that "Uncle Gerry" is not likely to mention where most of these things go as he has never made any "bones" about how much of "what" he makes for "whom". (This is but one of the reasons I have such respect for Gerry.)

Then there is the security issue for the guys on "the sharp end".....

I understand curiosity (and am indeed inflicted with it quite deeply) and am sure there is nothing to this question other than that, but I have friends and customers who don't neccessarily want that type of info spread around.

Suffice it to say that Gerry's products go to some fine folks working in "interesting" places.
 
Oku said:
Remember that Iraqistan is not the only area where our troops are working...it's just the only one on the news at present.

I suspect that "Uncle Gerry" is not likely to mention where most of these things go as he has never made any "bones" about how much of "what" he makes for "whom". (This is but one of the reasons I have such respect for Gerry.)

Then there is the security issue for the guys on "the sharp end".....

I understand curiosity (and am indeed inflicted with it quite deeply) and am sure there is nothing to this question other than that, but I have friends and customers who don't neccessarily want that type of info spread around.

Suffice it to say that Gerry's products go to some fine folks working in "interesting" places.
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Understood, understood. Some of my brethren are out there in harm's way still. I suspected this question might meet this response (not meant to be negative) after I posted it. I would never expect any intel that would risk a breach of security. I just love this new Muddy scheme, and as you stated, I'm curious. I can track the info easy enough, now that I think about it.

I too respect Jerry's ethics and practices as we know them publicly, and am deeply grateful that he shares what is seen fit with those of us who really appreciate his work.
 
I wouldn't think these two color combos on the AD or meaner are being used in any theaters of military.
I thought miliganza name just came from the millitary looks of the color combo.

I'm not sure at all though, did he post that these were over runs?

I know he makes a ton for the military, and thank him for it, but wouldn't think it would be these two.


Don't mater to me though, I liked and ordered all.
 
Pure marketing hype, no NSN. If they were really military overruns, they already have been produced and shipping instead of 6-8 weeks from now.

If Jerry was making some spec ops knives, he wouldn't know where they were headed, he has no "need to know". I had a Top Secret Crypto clearance for over 24 years and "need to know" is one of the basic tenets of allowing access to any classified information.
 
First, let me disagree with the Chief. He does indeed know what he's talking about on the "need to know" issue, but is taking the principle too far for what happens in all actuality. Busse knives would be considered "local purchase" items. They would come out of S-6 funds, likely forked over by a Captain/Lieutenant (O-3) with a unit address. There would be no reason to hide the unit's identity from Jerry. Now, Jerry will be discreet and contain that information, but don't think that the military is so secret squirrel that they'd order knives for a "medical unit" then re-ship them to Seal Team Six. Take a look at the SOUL-1 for example. Its image cannot be transmitted electronically at all, to protect the identities of its real world carriers. I highly doubt that the guys at the shop don't know who those owners are. They're just decent enough to keep it to themselves.

As to the new colors, sage and muddy are just as good as tan in the desert. The desert, in all actuality, is not Coyote Tan. There is a lot of greenery, there is a lot of dirt, there is a lot of concrete. In afghanistan you can walk from a brown river bed into a green field into a grey-brown mountain into a tan-sandy desert... You'll be well served with any of the new color combos.
 
Chief said:
Pure marketing hype, no NSN. If they were really military overruns, they already have been produced and shipping instead of 6-8 weeks from now.

If Jerry was making some spec ops knives, he wouldn't know where they were headed, he has no "need to know". I had a Top Secret Crypto clearance for over 24 years and "need to know" is one of the basic tenets of allowing access to any classified information.
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It's no hype bro... Jerry doesn't hang the labels on his gear like allot of other makers do, he has absolutely no need to. Jerry's knives are on allot of my Team mates gear, whether they were purchased through the Team, personal funds or otherwise.

I will tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that not having a NSN means jack. I respect your 24 years in the service, but things have changed allot with GWOT. Commercial items (COTS) are much easier to purchase now to keep up with technology and support the needs of deploying soldiers. So the NSN system is a bit antique.

I'm sure you impressed allot of people here talking about your TS clearance, great OPSEC!:thumbup:

Forgive my grumpy tone on this post, I just get tired of people stating opinion as fact and backing it up with irrelevance.

I'm going to go cut something up with my "Non-issue" Busse now!:D
 
Chief said:
Pure marketing hype, no NSN. If they were really military overruns, they already have been produced and shipping instead of 6-8 weeks from now.
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Interesting. So now you know what has been made (cut, ground, heat treated) and not finished or slabbed in the shop?

How did you come by this information??
 
JWBirch said:
First, let me disagree with the Chief. He does indeed know what he's talking about on the "need to know" issue, but is taking the principle too far for what happens in all actuality. Busse knives would be considered "local purchase" items. They would come out of S-6 funds, likely forked over by a Captain/Lieutenant (O-3) with a unit address. There would be no reason to hide the unit's identity from Jerry. Now, Jerry will be discreet and contain that information, but don't think that the military is so secret squirrel that they'd order knives for a "medical unit" then re-ship them to Seal Team Six. Take a look at the SOUL-1 for example. Its image cannot be transmitted electronically at all, to protect the identities of its real world carriers. I highly doubt that the guys at the shop don't know who those owners are. They're just decent enough to keep it to themselves.

As to the new colors, sage and muddy are just as good as tan in the desert. The desert, in all actuality, is not Coyote Tan. There is a lot of greenery, there is a lot of dirt, there is a lot of concrete. In afghanistan you can walk from a brown river bed into a green field into a grey-brown mountain into a tan-sandy desert... You'll be well served with any of the new color combos.
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I suspected that some of these might be going to the sandbox, but last I heard, tan was the only authorized carry. Some great input folks, much appreciated. I truly miss dealing with those who serve, it's been awhile.
 
JW- I interpretated OKU's "where they were headed" statement to mean location of deployment, not who ordered them. I agree with you on the procurement process, not everything has an NSN and Busse knows who ordered them, but doesn't know "where they were headed" (location of deployment), no "need to know".

winmagfrog - The fact that I held a TS clearance 24+ years has nothing to do with OPSEC. (Definition: operations security: [The] process denying to potential adversaries information about capabilities and/or intentions by identifying, controlling and protecting generally unclassified evidence of the planning and execution of sensitive activities.) The fact I held a clearance at one time (retired, expired) has zip to do with any planning and execution of sensitive activities. Using terms you do not understand does not impress anyone.

thatmguy - My statement is based on my experiance / opinion of what constitutes a Military Overrun. IMO, it should be ... Busse gets an order for a run of mil spec knives. While filling this order they make a few extra for testing / mistakes / enough over to ensure they can fill the order. After the order is filled, the few extra leftover knives are offered to Busse civilian faithful. After the military order is completed, the few extras (if any) are offered to the public. However, from the way recent "military overrun" orders have been taken, it appears Busse has a different definition, e.g. take e-mail orders for a time frame and finish them in the next 6-8 weeks to fill those orders. Please enlighten us with the inside info, what constitutes a "military overrun" from a Busse perspective? How many military overrun orders were taken by e-mail and can you post a photo of those knives already ground / heat treated / ready for finish?
 
Alright bud...

This is a very friendly forum, so I will gnaw a hole in my lip while I type this... Jerry does more for the military than you, or most on this forum will ever know about. If he calls it a military over run, it's just that. Just a guess on my part here, but he probably produces a large number of the knives to keep production costs down and further offsets the costs to the military by selling the extras (over runs) to the public.

OPSEC covers you as well, not just operations. Boasting that you held a TS clearance for 24 years would definately give the impression that you were privie to compartmentalized information. Why tell people on a knife forum that? Think that we care? NO, but someone might, and for the wrong reasons... I bet you don't have any sensitive info on your computer that could be hacked by a interested 20 year old in god knows where.

Good job!

I'll be happy to take this to pm's with you to keep it civil on the forum.

Jerry Busse bleeds red white and blue, if he calls it a mil over run, by God- it's a mil over run. What does it matter any way? We'd still buy them if he called it a Toys-r-us over run!
 
Chief said:
Pure marketing hype, no NSN. If they were really military overruns, they already have been produced and shipping instead of 6-8 weeks from now.

If Jerry was making some spec ops knives, he wouldn't know where they were headed, he has no "need to know". I had a Top Secret Crypto clearance for over 24 years and "need to know" is one of the basic tenets of allowing access to any classified information.
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I'm just trying to understand how you come and say what you did, and now you backpedal with "My statement is based on my experiance / opinion of what constitutes a Military Overrun. IMO, it should be..." , which contradicts your stronger original statement.

I don't have access to the shop, nor pictures. I was just wondering how you were able to make the definitive-toned statement of "Pure marketing hype, no NSN", with absolutely no knowledge of facts to back it up.

Your accusations, not mine....
 
Chief said:
JW- I interpretated OKU's "where they were headed" statement to mean location of deployment, not who ordered them. I agree with you on the procurement process, not everything has an NSN and Busse knows who ordered them, but doesn't know "where they were headed" (location of deployment), no "need to know".

winmagfrog - The fact that I held a TS clearance 24+ years has nothing to do with OPSEC. (Definition: operations security: [The] process denying to potential adversaries information about capabilities and/or intentions by identifying, controlling and protecting generally unclassified evidence of the planning and execution of sensitive activities.) The fact I held a clearance at one time (retired, expired) has zip to do with any planning and execution of sensitive activities. Using terms you do not understand does not impress anyone.

thatmguy - My statement is based on my experiance / opinion of what constitutes a Military Overrun. IMO, it should be ... Busse gets an order for a run of mil spec knives. While filling this order they make a few extra for testing / mistakes / enough over to ensure they can fill the order. After the order is filled, the few extra leftover knives are offered to Busse civilian faithful. After the military order is completed, the few extras (if any) are offered to the public. However, from the way recent "military overrun" orders have been taken, it appears Busse has a different definition, e.g. take e-mail orders for a time frame and finish them in the next 6-8 weeks to fill those orders. Please enlighten us with the inside info, what constitutes a "military overrun" from a Busse perspective? How many military overrun orders were taken by e-mail and can you post a photo of those knives already ground / heat treated / ready for finish?
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Just to have around...
 
Chief said:
JW- I interpretated OKU's "where they were headed" statement to mean location of deployment, not who ordered them. I agree with you on the procurement process, not everything has an NSN and Busse knows who ordered them, but doesn't know "where they were headed" (location of deployment), no "need to know".

winmagfrog - The fact that I held a TS clearance 24+ years has nothing to do with OPSEC. (Definition: operations security: [The] process denying to potential adversaries information about capabilities and/or intentions by identifying, controlling and protecting generally unclassified evidence of the planning and execution of sensitive activities.) The fact I held a clearance at one time (retired, expired) has zip to do with any planning and execution of sensitive activities. Using terms you do not understand does not impress anyone.

thatmguy - My statement is based on my experiance / opinion of what constitutes a Military Overrun. IMO, it should be ... Busse gets an order for a run of mil spec knives. While filling this order they make a few extra for testing / mistakes / enough over to ensure they can fill the order. After the order is filled, the few extra leftover knives are offered to Busse civilian faithful. After the military order is completed, the few extras (if any) are offered to the public. However, from the way recent "military overrun" orders have been taken, it appears Busse has a different definition, e.g. take e-mail orders for a time frame and finish them in the next 6-8 weeks to fill those orders. Please enlighten us with the inside info, what constitutes a "military overrun" from a Busse perspective? How many military overrun orders were taken by e-mail and can you post a photo of those knives already ground / heat treated / ready for finish?
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After calling the shop, it was hinted that Yes, they are primarily overruns.

HOWEVER, they chose to continue making additional overruns in order to give us all a treat. They are all setup for the manufacture of these models so why not! The reason for the longer ship is that they are manufacturing even more overruns so that no one here gets left behind. A bonus really! :)

Hope this makes sense!
 
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