Some Sabres/Sabers

[horseclover]

A new addition here has been a Starr 1818. Its black Japanning now a chocolate brown and a smidge of rust on the blade. Found at a good price, older stuff always takes precedent on my lists. I have more interest in the pre American Civil War period.

Cheers

GC

 

[Mecha]

Ooooo that one looks like some serious business.

 

[horseclover]

Starr was one of the earliest true federal contracts in 1798. They produced a fair number of swords, with contracts for cutlasses, infantry/artillery swords and cavalry swords. They also produced pikes, then muskets and later one of the early DA percussion cap revolverThe 1812/1813 and 1818 swords very distinctive with their clipped points. The 1812/1813 blades had no fuller, while the 1818 doers. These always seem bigger in pictures with little size perspective but these are very similar to the British 1796 light cavalry swords in overall size.

This one obviously carried at one point, as there are remnants of the original straps.

The blade washer/bumper remains as if almost new

A good survivor but probably a quiet life,as never sharpened and only a few nicks.

Starr is an early user of the cutlery nuts we so often see to this day

Some great ancestors of the Starr 1818 kind of showed the way
http://armscollectors.com/mgs/four_big_black_swords.htm

Cheers

GC

 

[David Stifle]

HC, I'm interested in the typical spine thickness of your sabers, or of any curved, slashing sword such as the scimitar. I recently made a 27" curved saber like sword. In forging/grinding it I was primarily interested in making a functional, useable sword. So, when I was done, the spine at the hilt is 6mm, halfway down the blade it is still 6mm, and of course, it does get thinner towards the edge. My concern now, obviously, is I forged it too thin, although I see a lot of Cold Steel blades are about the same thickness. I haven't heat treated it yet, so I don't know how it's going to perform, guess we'll see. Oh, and the steel is A2. What are your thoughts on blade thickness, and am I within norms?

 

[horseclover]

HC, I'm interested in the typical spine thickness of your sabers, or of any curved, slashing sword such as the scimitar. I recently made a 27" curved saber like sword. In forging/grinding it I was primarily interested in making a functional, useable sword. So, when I was done, the spine at the hilt is 6mm, halfway down the blade it is still 6mm, and of course, it does get thinner towards the edge. My concern now, obviously, is I forged it too thin, although I see a lot of Cold Steel blades are about the same thickness. I haven't heat treated it yet, so I don't know how it's going to perform, guess we'll see. Oh, and the steel is A2. What are your thoughts on blade thickness, and am I within norms?

Obviously, there are going to be variables but amongst my sabres, what I outline in post #15 of this thread shows a basic formula for many swords in general, straight or curved. Katana, not of the same parameters as western stuff, nor many other blades, so it can be a misnomer to state all swords must follow this formula. Measuring at the spine, a great many western swords of the 18th and 19th century have a very extreme distal at the spine, halving between the guard and pob, in a more linear fashion to the foible, then falling off again to as little as 1mm thick at the thickest part of the point..

I am not going to start publishing exactitude for every sword I own but that basic formula is so common during that period and in those European countries that you can see it going back as far as the 15th century and earlier.

Cheers

GC

 

[David Stifle]

Obviously, there are going to be variables but amongst my sabres, what I outline in post #15 of this thread shows a basic formula for many swords in general, straight or curved. Katana, not of the same parameters as western stuff, nor many other blades, so it can be a misnomer to state all swords must follow this formula. Measuring at the spine, a great many western swords of the 18th and 19th century have a very extreme distal at the spine, halving between the guard and pob, in a more linear fashion to the foible, then falling off again to as little as 1mm thick at the thickest part of the point..

I am not going to start publishing exactitude for every sword I own but that basic formula is so common during that period and in those European countries that you can see it going back as far as the 15th century and earlier.

Cheers

GC

Thanks, I thought I'd completely read this thread, but somehow skipped right over your observations on thickness. Sounds like I'm a little lean on my sword, but I'll go ahead and Ht it and test it. Then go again based on what I've learned this go around.

 

[Mecha]

I'd go even thinner at the middle, Dave! A more extreme "plunge" of the distal taper

 

[David Stifle]

I'd go even thinner at the middle, Dave! A more extreme "plunge" of the distal taper

This is A2 steel, buddy, not Ti I can't turn this steel into a long skinny razor blade like you do. Need to get the Ht right and even I might be surprised what this blade can do. I've always liked A2.

 

[horseclover]

What is crazy to me is that I have tens of thousands of sword picture files, often do archive to specifically note the extreme concave distal; go so far and note to myself "aha, this will show them" and then can never remember where I stashed a particular image.

However, I do have some of my larger files uploaded to Google Drive and invite others to feel free in browsing them. Works in progress, so they won't make sense at times (duplicates, cross filed) and those would be an old eagle pommel sword index and and old spadroon folder.

Eagles
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AOFMA8y3ODNllwS21ja1FuVmM?usp=sharing

Spadroons
https://drive.google.com/drive/fold...FWdlFIOGpFaWJfd2pOdk41Q09jOXdyODQ?usp=sharing

One may get as glazed eyed as I do when looking for something but there are several good shots of the spines.

Some of the British 1796 light cavalry sabres are 10mm at tthe guard, 6mm at the pob, gradually reducing to 4mm at the last part of the fullered section, then dropping to wafer thick across the cross section between the fuller's end and point. Again a trait found on many swords but when looking at other swords, there is sometimes a very linear progression, especially on big thrusters (right back to a type xvii Oakeshott).

The big guy an m1854 dragoon, the smaller (by an inch or so) of three fielded in the French line cavalry. A very linear distal taper and thicker at the point. 8mm or so at the gaurd.

My yataghan very linear. My "wristbreaker" above with the 1854 an example of less radical distal and a move to larger mass productions.

Cheers

GC

 

[Mecha]

This is A2 steel, buddy, not Ti I can't turn this steel into a long skinny razor blade like you do. Need to get the Ht right and even I might be surprised what this blade can do. I've always liked A2.

Aha, sounds like a delicate operation. Looking forward to some pics and details!~

Horseclover, what are the black grips of these sabres made of? Is it some kind of wood?

 

[horseclover]

Horseclover, what are the black grips of these sabres made of? Is it some kind of wood?

Which? The ones in my last post are leather over cord wrapped in wire for the wristbreaker and buffalo (not bison) horn with wire on the straight 1854 (officer). The black pair of spadroon and sabre on the previous page are both ebony wood. The m1902 in the group photo black plastic, others leather on wood or steamed cow horn. The Starr leather on wood. Ivory or bone for the white stuff.

Cheers

BTW, while I'm thinking of it, some fullers were scraped, rather than ground or pounded.

GC

 

[Mecha]

Which? The ones in my last post are leather over cord wrapped in wire for the wristbreaker and buffalo (not bison) horn with wire on the straight 1854 (officer). The black pair of spadroon and sabre on the previous page are both ebony wood. The m1902 in the group photo black plastic, others leather on wood or steamed cow horn. The Starr leather on wood. Ivory or bone for the white stuff.

Cheers

BTW, while I'm thinking of it, some fullers were scraped, rather than ground or pounded.

GC

Wow, interesting and broad range of materials. They certainly seem have a specific style to them.