Some thoughts on blade finishes and solder in the current day. Input?

[Salem Straub]

A customer has been sending me questions about this and that during a project design. So I've been educating him a bit at a time. This is a reply to something he asked me- why a 600 grit hand sand rather than a mirror, and why no solder but epoxy? I typed a bunch, and when I was done the explanation had interested me to the degree that I thought I'd post it here to see how some of your perceptions may mirror or diverge from my own.

"Well, the degree to which mirror finish was common in the past had a lot to do with the trends at the time. The hand-rubbed finish had not been popularized at that time. I think a fair amount of the shift to hand sanding came along with the rise of hamons in modern knives- they don't work with a buffed blade; damascus as well generally looks better if the steel is sanded but not buffed prior to etching. Makers like Don Fogg were pushing knives in a new/old direction with nice sanded finishes, and that in conjunction with the ascendancy of the ABS, whose go-to finish is generally hand-rubbed, brought a lot of change.

It is much the same with soldering- a paradigm shift over the years. Back in the 80's some guys like Buster Warenski were getting such nice fits on guards that solder became unnecessary- you never want solder to be an "attachment" method, rather it was a gap filler and moisture seal. With no gap to fill, a great alternative moisture seal to solder (and less disruptive to a clean build) is epoxy. Cleaned up well, it can't much be seen at all. The use of epoxy precludes any issues from the heat of the soldering process, as well as any question of retained flux causing problems down the road. With hamon and pattern welded blades, epoxy and a press-fit are preferable as they do not affect the appearance of a blade with an etched finish. Takedown construction is popular in high-end knives for many of the same reasons.

As far as the relative merits of a 600 grit finish, principally they are:
Less labor, so less cost to the buyer than a higher grit or mirror, but more labor than a belt finish
A good-looking finish that is easy to touch up. Scotch-brite works great.
Lengthwise grit pattern makes scratching generally stand out less.
A hand-rubbed finish retains crisper grind lines, generally speaking. Buffers tend to wash out detail. Many makers who mirror finish now, will hand sand to a high grit first and buff as little as possible.
Hand sanding tends to impart a flatter, truer surface to the blade than belt finish or belt with subsequent buffing.

And so forth."

Thoughts?

 

[S.Alexander]

Good post Salem. I can't say that I've ever seen a soldered guard in person so I don't know much about the differences in the 2 methods. I like the challenge of getting a perfectly fit guard with no gaps, and attaching with jb weld epoxy.

On your other point, I like the look of a nice satin finish over a mirror finish regardless of the work put into the blades.

 

[Matt Rochester]

I think that soldering guards is overkill if the fit is good to start with. I press fit mine and then go the JB weld route. As far as the mirror to hand rubbed I think mirror finish is fine if its not going to be used like a "safe queen". If you wipe a fingerprint off with your t-shirt on a polished knife you have put visible scratches in the finish. I like the hand rubbed because it still looks nice after it has been used.

 

[Ken H>]

Salem, I think you've summed up the situation quite nicely.

I'm no expert, but do have an opinion {g} -

A mirror finish is for a collector "display" knife, not a knife that is to be used. A mirror finish will really make a blade "pop", but the first time you cut much or chop a limb, clean a deer you'll have marks that mess up that nice pretty mirror.

I really like the looks of the tiny (and it MUST be tiny) solder line for a soldered bolster/guard. Not that it's one bit better, just gives me the feeling of "craftsmanship". For the soldered joint to look right, the fit must be tight so the solder will be pulled in via capillary action leaving a tiny tiny visible line of low temp silver solder.

Either epoxy or solder works just fine - I've only done a couple of soldered bolster/guards because I wanted to learn.

 

[LARRYZ10]

I used to solder every guard in place and spend a bunch of time making it look perfect. Now I fit my guards so tight that they look almost like an integral grind. I sand the inside of the bolsters to 400 grit and pin them usually with two or four 5/32" pins which I smack into place with a 2 pound hammer, flat side first and then ball peen side. I some times squeeze the bolsters together with a large vise and then shape them roughly to size before adding scales. On half of my knives I do a high polish if they are made from CPM 154 because I like it but I do sand them to 2500 grit before buffing with green chrome. For a satin finish I take the blades to almost a high polish and finish with a 400 grit cork belt and a super fine Scotchbrite belt. I pretty much agree with Salem on this subject. I will do more satin finish if that's what my customers want. Larry

 

[BKT]

I agree with all of the above. Personally, I cant stand a mirror finish. Makes the knife look dated to me and just chrome on cars its just out of style these days. It also picks up every type of smudge, fingerprint, dirt, scratch imaginable.

With epoxy I feel modern epoxies are just as strong, with proper craftsmanship, as solder needs to be. I dont think you are losing any strength as long as they are not used improperly.

 

[Justin Presson]

I set in on the ABS seminars on Friday at the ICCE show in Kansas City and Greg Neely (I believe who it was) discussed that very topic of fitting up guards and sodering and how knifemakers have moved away from that for the vary reasons you discussed.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[12345678910]

I agree with all of the above. Personally, I cant stand a mirror finish. Makes the knife look dated to me and just chrome on cars its just out of style these days. It also picks up every type of smudge, fingerprint, dirt, scratch imaginable.

.

blades and brass buffed to with an inch of their lives Just scream cheap crap to me -
Also a Trope for typical paki-india look; or backyard beginner

particularly when they exhibit the blocky handles, have shaped nothing, then jumped directly from coarse belt to high buff and leaned on it hard to get there.
All edges lost, huge ditches visible below the shiny spots.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

In my opinion, nothing says craftsmanship better than a properly mirror polished blade.
I believe polishing is not popular because:
People are too lazy to do it.
People are unnecessarily afraid of buffers.
But then, I'm a dinosaur.

 

[Patrice Lemée]

The mirror finish gets the same treatment as brass and giraffe bone. Been done too much on cheap import stuff so stigmatize now. It can be nice I think but selectively and perfectly done.

 

[AVigil]

Trends do change. For example the first maker to use 440c stainless steel and use hand sanded finish on a knife was D.E. Henry. In a sea of knives his stood out and screamed high craftsmanship back in his day.

A mirror finished blade is the absolutley best finish to resist corrosion. It was first part of a high performance custom knife and second to make it look shiny. Bob Loveless mirrored his blades for this reason. It is the best for field use in resisting the elements.

Only when the knives became collectible and went from the field to display cases and drawers did it become a thing for collecting.

I do not do mirror finishes, not that I can not do it but because it screams "chrome, cheesy" unless it is on a very high dollar blade done by makers like Steve Johnson and others.

I like a satin finish like the Henry blade, it has a warmer feel to it.

Luckily customers like a satin machine finish, yes they are easier to do but they are easier to sell as well

 

[john april]

i like the mirror finish for corrosion/rust resistance because i use high carbon steels. satin finishes can rust very quickly. i noticed this when grinding and dipping in water. the opposite side i am working on rusts very fast. i guess most guys use stainless nowadays. i always though mirror finished were more impressive. they shine like jewelry. as you mentioned, if you go up to a clean 1500 or 2000 grit, it only takes about 60 seconds with each compound, so i think washing out is negligible. i only use epoxy/jb weld when i make a damascus knife or something with a hamon. even though guards are tightly press fit, there is something mentally soothing security that metal is attaching other metals together, even though it is not required. a soldered guard is more impressive to people who do not know about knives it also shows another skill set, how nice your joint and solder work is. i do not use a fillet, the only solder is what is left in the gap. once i saw bob loveless knives, thats how i wanted to try to do it.

 

[Salem Straub]

This is good, what I wanted to do is just talk about it a little, particularly about industry trends, not to really claim that sanded finishes or epoxy guards are "superior" in any way. I too have seen highly polished blades, with solder joints, that were beautifully clean and appealing. That style of knife making takes serious skill and it shows.

I do personally think that for a field use knife, the corrosion resistance of mirror polish is less preferable than the durability/easy touchup of a satin finish. If anything, I go to using stainless or D2 for a sporting knife if corrosion resistance may be an issue. Then, I just give it a satin finish anyway.

 

[LARRYZ10]

In my opinion, nothing says craftsmanship better than a properly mirror polished blade.
I believe polishing is not popular because:
People are too lazy to do it.
People are unnecessarily afraid of buffers.
But then, I'm a dinosaur.

Mr. DeShivs, I am a dinosaur as well. When I do a high polish on one of my knives I work on it for hours and hours because the reflections show any minute variation. I hand sand and go back to the belts up to felt backed 2500 grit and then back to my radiused pieces of sand paper backing...back and forth many times on different days. I don't just knock out knives anymore so I am willing to do it just to be proud of something I made. If it is out of style then "so what?' I like it and will do it when it pleases me. Many times I will high polish the ricasso and top of the spine and satin finish the hollow grind for a contrast. I am a fossil.... I still play vinyl record albums on a vintage turntable. Larry