Some work with a modified Livesay RTAK

Cliff Stamp

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Some work with a modified Livesay RTAK

This is Chad Engelhardt's RTAK made by Newt Livesay and designed by Jeff Randall. It is an extended version with a 14" blade, the norm is a ten inches. The steel is 1095 with a differential temper. I think the edge is 58-60 RC, the spine significantly softer. The blade shows signs of significant use, but has held up very well. The coating for one has just taken on a polished look, much better than a lot of what I have seen.

Design :

The handle is quite large, which is nice, as it means it is usable even on the rare occasions that I want to use a thick work glove. However it has quite a big swell which makes for an uncomfortable grip as I normally hold a knife high up on the handle. Different people have different hands and hold blades in different ways so this obviously isn't a universal opinion. The handle is also too slick for my preferences, as well as too thin and I would prefer more of an edge hook to drive off of, as well as to enhance security in general.

In regards to general design, the steel thickness, type and primary grind are all very sound choices. However I would not want a clip point. While it does offer some advantages, it makes a decent beater for rough work (roots), I would prefer a more inline point for reasons of balance (minor) and strength and stiffness (major). This does give up point penetration ability of course.

The edge was about 80 thousands thick behind the bevel which is ground at ~18 or so degrees. I made some measurements but promptly lost them, so that is from memory. I would radically slim down the edge, to at least half would be a start. This would still have it at more than twice the thickness of the Patrol Machete (near the front). About 0.030" is what I would expect my functional limit of durability to be for such work, but maybe I will be surprised by the replacement for the Patrol Machete.

NIB work :

I gave it a light sharpening and used it for limbing and general light brush work on woody vegetation . It took some time to develop a decent grip on the handle, I ended up working with index and fore finger in front on the swell, but it placed too much pressure on my index finger. This is further hampered by the grip being too smooth and thus I was having to hold tighter than normal, which compounds the problem of the rather thin cross section. My grip would relax to relieve the pressure and then the blade would slip to far forward. As noted, a more significant end hook would be nice both to prevent the blade from coming out of my hand as well as something to drive off of, the latter would only be practical with the swell removed.

The blade fares at about 65-70% of the raw chopping ability GB Wildlife Hatchet when bucking small wood (number of hits). This was only a few sections cut, but it was readily obvious that the performance was significantly lower. It was also significantly behind the Trmontina bolo on limbing ability. Some stock cutting on hardwood dowels showed the main cause. The hatchet could point one in about 15 slices, whereas the RTAK took ~37. This difference doesn't carry directly over into chopping performance, as chopping also depends on issues such as mass, balance, and of course the primary grind. The dowel slicing just shows the influence of the edge geometry, most importantly the angle and secondly the thickness.

Modifications and further work :

I adjusted the edge on the RTAK using a belt sander. I didn't change the angle of the very edge, just swept the shoulder back to 10-12 degrees per side. The edge then goes on very close to flat until it hits about 0.025" thick at which point it sweeps down to a very robust ~18 degrees per side. This is still over built for me personally, but I want to take the changes a bit at a time so I can see how much gain is made each time, plus it means that there is little risk of significant edge failure. The blade was then sharpened using a 1000 and then 4000 grit waterstone, and then finished with stropping on CrO loaded leather. It takes a fine polish easily which you would exact, as well it was very ease to grind. 1095 has a very high machinability and a fine grain.

This alteration to the edge profile made a huge impact on the cutting ability, roughing out hardwood dowels for example jumped from ~37 slices to ~15, now at the same level of the GB Wildlife hatchet. The next session of limbing showed a drastic performance jump. It now cut much closer to the Tramontina bolo, and doesn't bind, and is much stiffer. I took the Tramontina along, but unlike the first session I never used it extensively as the RTAK was enough.

The Tramontina has a similar edge profile except the shoulder is lower by a couple of degrees, and the very edge sweep is about 13-15 degrees so its more acute in both ways than the RTAK. However the RTAK actually has a primary grind which evens the score somewhat and means that it can stand a slightly more obtuse edge profile at the same level of cutting ability, and be more functional over all because of the stiffness. The RTAK has a high grade of steel and heat treat so in fact should be able to withstand a lower edge profile anyway.

After the limbing session (~500 chops), the RTAK still actually shaved roughly in places, and overall was still easily able to cut light grasses, no visible damage except for a couple of preexisting rough spots near the tip which I never removed when I sharpened it. I intend to use it with this profile for awhile until I take it down again so it will match the edge profile on the Tramontina, eventually it will be under it.


The handle of the RTAK took a major jump in comfort once the edge profile was changed to raise the cutting ability, it is still not practical for me though as the swell is too much, though the size I like. I am going to reduce the swell somewhat, a little at a time as it obviously can't be put back on once it is taken off.

I did have a problem with the RCM from Livesay, which is a similar knife :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/RCM.html

which had edge ripple induced while on hardwood limbing on standing trees, done for prep for felling usually, as those limbs are sharp and hard enough to readily tear skin so you want them out of the way. They also make excellent kindling as well though as they are dry and small so they burn readily. In any case, I have been doing a fair amount of this with the RTAK with no problems, and nor do I expect any given the edge thickness. I don't think I could get this to ripple if I tried by beating the knife sideways into limbs. My wrist would probably give out from the vibration before the steel would bend.

Further work :

I have been using it with no problems lately as the main light brush knife and it is working very well. I still want to do some direct comparisons against the Tramontina on limbing, bucking and felling before I take the RTAK down again. I also figured out a workable grip, just index finger in the cutout, which seems obvious now. My natural instinct is to grip up further on the blade, but this way is more comfortable. I'll use it a while like this before removing some of the swell. There are still security problems due to the lack of texture and end hook. I will be interesting to see how both compare to the Jungle knife as it takes a significantly different approach to a solution of the same problem.

Overall :

The only real drawback of the RTAK's design over the Tramontina (stamped flat stock vs primary grind) for this type of work is that the thicker spine on the RTAK means that it doesn't make as good a limb hammer (or sod cutter etc.) on the dried branches, as the Tramontina can actually cut somewhat with the spine due to the higher pressure and the hump. However this doesn't compete with the stiffer RTAK and the potential for greater cutting ability once the edge profile is again modified. Primary grinds are a huge potential advantage. Plus the thicker and rounder spine of the RTAK make it a more friendly draw knife and splitter. I can break up dried small scrap by lightly chopping into it with the RTAK and just hitting the spine with my palm, that isn't comfortable with the Tramontina. The sheath is very well done for Kydex, though I don't actually wear it because it gets in the way. It does make a nice support for a writing pad.

Here is a link to some more detailed commentary on the Tramontina Bolo for reference :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198896

The blades will be used on lighter vegetation once it thaws around here.

-Cliff
 
A very nice review Cliff. I am interested in hearing how things work out when the edge profile is lowered to the extreme levels you propose.

The blade shows signs of significant use, but has held up very well. The coating for one has just taken on a polished look, much better than a lot of what I have seen.

The parkerized finish has held up much better than I had expected, better than polymer coatings such as those used by Cold Steel and BK&T line. The Busse coating (both smooth and crinkle) is very wear resistant from abbrassion but is prone to flaking from impacts (from baton work, hammering with the spine, etc.) In terms of abbrasion resistance Busse's is the toughest coating I have seen. I am doing some work with a chrome and Boron Carbide coated D2 blade right now
and it is holding up extremely well.

The edge was about 80 thousands thick behind the bevel which is ground at ~18 or so degrees. I made some measurements but promptly lost them, so that is from memory. I would radically slim down the edge, to at least half would be a start.

Those figures seem right on. The edge was thick enough to endure hardwood limbing, but acute enough to chop decently.
My customized Trailmaster has an edge thickness in the area of .025 behind the bevel and a 25 degree (included) convex edge. It cuts at a much higher level (pushcuts and slicing) but is limited to fresh wood felling for chopping, any serious knots would be likely to induce edge damage.
The RTAK is much larger knife, the extra weight and leverage afforded by the length can produce much higher levels of stress on the blade, and given its mission, limbing hardwood, I thought the thicker edge would be suitable.
Here is a pic of the custom RTAK with my Busse #9 for size comparison. The RTAK had seen a fair amount of use after this pic was taken obviously, including having the edge reground.
fdde4713.jpg


As we have discussed in email, it is a matter of balancing priorities, reduce the cross section to increase performance at the expense of strength.... how far are you willing to go? I am very glad you have decided to significantly alter the edge profile, as durability of well heat treated 1095 should make an interesting benchmark.

However it has quite a big swell which makes for an uncomfortable grip as I normally hold a knife high up on the handle.
Yes, I found the same thing.

The handle is also too slick for my preferences

I found it to be about perfect, a great balance between grip security and abrassiveness. But as you noted this is a matter of individual taste. I tend to favor slightly less abbrassive handles than you, and I also often work with leather gloves on.

After the limbing session (~500 chops), the RTAK still actually shaved roughly in places, and overall was still easily able to cut light grasses, no visible damage except for a couple of preexisting rough spots near the tip which I never removed when I sharpened it.

This is exactly why I prefer a harder blade than usual in a machete class blade. I have used several other knives in 1095, none have been as well heat treated as those by Livesay. The minor edge damage was from inclusions while clearing out a stand of willows from the side of a creek bed, they were covered with mud, some of it dried. As You know mud often acts as a carrier for small stones, so the damage, which is minor, was not unexpected. But I wasn't in the mood to clean up the trees before I chopped them down :) :) :)

This alteration to the edge profile made a huge impact on the cutting ability, roughing out hardwood dowels for example jumped from ~37 slices to ~15, now at the same level of the GB Wildlife hatchet.

Very impressive gains, especially when you consider that the GB hatchet is a very high benchmark.

. Plus the thicker and rounder spine of the RTAK make it a more friendly draw knife and splitter. I can break up dried small scrap by lightly chopping into it with the RTAK and just hitting the spine with my palm, that isn't comfortable with the Tramontina

The rounded spin is a design aspect that a strongly favor, it results in a knife that is stronger (by reducing a stress riser) and is more comfortable to use as you noted.

Here is a review of the same knife that I wrote a couple of years ago, the pics are gone thanks to photopoint screwing us.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90228

Again a very nice review Cliff, Thanks.

BTW I know that some of my comments are replicate matters that we have already discussed, but I included them as a commentary for everyone else reading this review.

Chad
 
Chad :

My customized Trailmaster has an edge thickness in the area of .025 behind the bevel and a 25 degree (included) convex edge. It cuts at a much higher level (pushcuts and slicing) but is limited to fresh wood felling for chopping, any serious knots would be likely to induce edge damage.

Yes as you noted, you have to find a balance of durability and cutting ability. Its not universal either as it is skill dependent, thus it is something that you have to determine personally. As you note this is a fairly big knife so the edge has to be built accordingly. This custom RTAK is 780 g, whereas my SHBM is only 660 g. The RTAK is also balanced further out on the blade, 5.2 cm in front of the handle, as opposed to only 2.7 cm for the Battle Mistress. Thus it is longer, heavier, and more blade balanced. All of this adds up to vastly more impact energies and of course, chopping potential once the edge is adjusted. Right now the SHBM would out chop it, but I have really thinned out the Battle Mistress, it is close to twenty degrees included now, with a strong sweep to the convex back bevel. I am curious as to how it will handle hard limbing actually, I have not used it for that yet, as I have been busy with other knives, and besides that it is a bit small and light for that anyway (khukuris will do that to you).

[handle texture]

I found it to be about perfect

My main problem was due to the shape, and this was amplifing my perspective on the texture. Though in general, yes, I tend to prefer a higher level of texture as even with a very good handle shape (GB axes), once they get wet they becomes very hard to control unless you squeeze them very hard, which you can't maintain for hours at a time. The more aggressive the texture the more you can relax your grip. This again however is another compromise area. No matter which way you go you are going to find someone who will really dislike what ever you do. It would be nice if you could order most high end knives by "parts" like you can with Randalls.

... the GB hatchet is a very high benchmark

Yes, the shallow cutting ability is very high for all GB axes. They will readily out cut most decent folders for example. It takes some fairly extreme knives to go past them, few will do it NIB, and those that do are usually really light use like the Opinels. The RTAK cuts very well now, I have no complaints about it in any such regard. I have been using it in the kitchen as of late. It is actually quite functional, awkward for somethings like peeling potatoes, but handles the general cutting tasks quite well.

I sharpened the knife yesterday, this was after several multi-hour sessions of limbing (1500-2500 chops). It was still sharp enough to pop off the ends of boughs, but had no slicing ability left, it could not cut grass at all for example. For heavy wood work it was still sharp enough (still would catch on my thumbnail for example), and I mainly sharpened it to get a feel for how it fared, plus to give me an indication of its edge holding by repeating the cutting a few more times. As well, using knives when blunted like this is asking for trouble as steel only lasts so long so keeping fresh metal in the edge prevents anything excessive from happening.

The sharpening was trivial. I just used a 1000 grit waterstone on the edge, freehanding the curvature. I worked on each side about a half a dozen times, and then rinsed the blade off. It would now readily slice paper and was pretty much ready to go. I was using a glossy magazine and could easily slice the pages in pieces at one end while holding the other (four to five inches apart). I then polished the edge with a 4000 grit waterstone and stropped on CrO to enhance the impact durability, and fine push cutting ability. It can now lightly pop the tops off of grasses with just a wrist flick, and yes, it shaves too.

I cut the palm swell off yesterday as well. I had intended to use it a few more times, but the lack of a comfortable and secure grip was biasing my opinion of its cutting ability too much and I had to release the potential. I then did some filing to increase the radius in some areas. The grip is still thin for me personally, and the filing wasn't perfect, it still needs some work, but there is a major improvement. I can use a solid full grip now with no problems. I also wrapped the grip with some guard tape from Lee Valley. This is very abrasive self-adhesive tape that gives a very high level of retention. This will allow me to relax my grip and thus lower fatigue, I am looking forward to trying it out again, and then ditching the tape and working with the raw grip. The tape only lasts a little while with heavy work anyway as it becomes very slick with sweat and wears down.

-Cliff
 
I also wrapped the grip with some guard tape from Lee Valley. This is very abrasive self-adhesive tape that gives a very high level of retention. ... The tape only lasts a little while with heavy work anyway as it becomes very slick with sweat and wears down.
Cliff, I haven't worked with it yet, but was wondering if you've ever tried Tommy Tape as a grip covering?? There's info on this self-fusing tape plus a link to the mfr here http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197087
 
As to the self-fusing tape referred to as Tommy Tape: I have a similar tape, mine being made by 3M as a specialized, industrial, electrical tape. I bought mine from an electrician. I also called up an industrial supply store and it was sold there, so that might be something to try. Another place I've seen such a tape is at Canadian Tire, in the adhesive section, where it's sold as a repair tape, to fix leaks in hoses and pipes, although it does mention that it's an electrical insulating tape with a CSA listing.
 
I myself no longer manufacture the RTAK knife that was a custom/benchmade model made by me under the Newt Livesay name. The RTAK was made from 3.08.1999 until the month of April 2002. The last of these knives are being ground, and finished now and all orders should be filled, and shipped no later than the middle of May 2002.

The total number of these knives made by myself for shipment to customer will be available on our web-site at http://newtlivesay.com in the “Livesay Combat Knife Manufacture Information” section. This is a new page that is being built and updated that has the following information concerning dates of manufacture, discontinuation of knife models, model number, stamping information, and in some respects the total production numbers for any given model of knife that was manufactured. The information on RTAK knives will be placed here soon for anyone who is interested.

Now in reference to design of the RTAK. Some where in these Blade Forum threads is an explanation of the RTAK conceptions, and design changes that I am not going to get into here in any length. If some one knows where it is you might please post it’s location for other to read. I think it is listed under Ontario RTAK or something of this nature. What I want to point out is the following;

In regards to general design, the steel thickness, type and primary grind are all very sound choices. However I would not want a clip point. While it does offer some advantages, it makes a decent beater for rough work (roots), I would prefer a more inline point for reasons of balance (minor) and strength and stiffness (major). This does give up point penetration ability of course.

The primary point is that Cliff has pointed out a design characteristic on this knife that I have changed. As far as I knew up until about the first of the year more or less the RTAK was our knife. This is neither here nor there now, but for this reason I was getting ready to change the blade design slightly to what I considered to be more user friendly. I had changed the handle configuration slightly on the RTAK at the time of it’s inception, and again was going to change it again to make it a more comfortable in every day usage. This was really brought home to me while cutting a clearing along a lagoon in the Amazon Jungle in January of this year. What I wanted to do was make the blade longer than the standard model and also to make is about one and a half to two inches longer. At the same time I wanted to straighten out the tip to be more like the Recon Combat Machete that I have made for a number of years. I also wanted too extend the butt of the handle to give a better, and in my opinion a more secure grip.

Having the RTAK taken from us gave me the opening for doing what I wanted to do but just sooner. First we have used up all the old RTAK blanks and are in the process of making knives from them, and doing the finish work. Next a new knife was designed, and put into production called the LAK4 or “AK” for short. The AK knife incorporates the following design changes that I wanted to do. A longer blade by approximate two inches, an in-line tip configuration, and an improved handle design for over all comfort, and safety. The exposed rear pommel has also been modified to put it in line too deliver the force of a blow in direct proportions or relation to the straight tip. The blade itself is also one quarter of an inch wider in the belly than the RTAK that I made.

The “AK” is still flat ground from 1095 high carbon, but will be coming out in D2 tool steel in a few select knives later in the year. This AK is also ground with a re-enforced tip for extra heavy-duty work. A photo of the AK next to a RTAK, RCM, and a WASP survival tool can be seen at the following location; http://64.227.169.223/newt_livesay_AK.htm

Now one very quick and short thing about tip penetration when it comes to big knives? I have never really had any major trouble to speak of with tip penetration when it comes to machetes. If it doesn’t go in deep enough, and easy enough I just used more force. I have seen personnel using machetes to do every thing from mowing lawns, clearing jungle, killing and skinning snakes and small game to making a spoon to eat with too loping a man’s arm, and head off. This is my own personnel opinion, but if I had only one knife that I could use, carry, or live with any where on earth I would take a machete.

If I can be of further assistance or if additional information is required, please contact me at Newt@Livesay.com.
Thank you for your support;
Newt Livesay
maker
 
I've never made a secret of my admiration for Newt's work! The handle on that "survival tool" is, like the one on my Air Assault, one of Newt's inspirations that are a pleasure to use for hours at a time...

I have to say that my hands are not very big, and the handle of my RCM is about as large as I can go, even a little too big for me. I look at the RTAK, and especially the newer AK and wonder about the number of people who have hands large enough to be comfortable around those handles, not to mention I suppose the wrist and arm strength you would need to swing those knives hour after hour...

Other than for pure collecting of course, the weilder must be considered an important part of the whole system when selecting an appropriate field knife, even for the jobs a big knife is called upon to do. I'm pretty sure Cliff is developing some serious wrist and forearm strength...
 
Rokjok, no I have not used it, but have used a very similar tape sold by Lee valley. It bonds very poorly to handles and tends to unroll down the grip. It also tears quite easily, and once a cut starts the tension tears it apart like most forms of rubber.

I used the RTAK with the modified grip with the tape and the handle was comfortable and secure. The cutting ability was increased and fatigue rate lowered due to the greater control and comfort. I then took the tape off and used it the next day for another session of limbing, with some bucking. I now prefer the RTAK grip to the handle on the Tramontina which is both becoming loose and has the fasteners recessed in the wood which is abrasive. I would still like the grip on the RTAK a bit thicker though, with a more pronounced end hook to drive off of.

I can now tell no difference in the limbing capacity of the RTAK and the Bolo. Both sweep small limbs off with equal ease, and can chop through similar sized heavy ones. Looking at the raw penetration, the bolo has a very slight advantage, but only of a few percent. Through 32 sections of wood cut with both blades, the RTAK performed at 88 +/- 7 % of the bolo. The performance is actually a bit higher than that, because looking at the notes I made, the RTAK on average tended get the knottier wood. A longer comparison would raise the performance to within a few percent of each other.

In short, now the RTAK handles light cutting just as well as the bolo and will limb out wood with the same ability, and yet with greater edge durability (the Tramontina took another slight edge ripple, just barely visible during). The RTAK also has better edge retention, due to a harder and higher grade of steel. Cutting heavier wood, the Bolo will just barely out penetrate it the RTAK, but the RTAK clears wood better, and is much stiffer, thus can far more readily pry out chips. It also fares better for wood prying in general, and is a better splitter and the Tramontina jams much more readily. The RTAK also has a more durable and comfortable handle, but the Tramontina does have the end hook to drive off of, which does increase its cutting ability significantly.

Here is a shot of the RTAK with the modified grip :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/rtak_mod.jpg

The picture that Chad posted in the above shows what it first looked like. In this picture the edge has been modified again as well. The edge is now about 15-16 degrees at about 0.030", and it sweeps back strongly to 9-10 degrees for the rest of the edge bevel, which is close to a quarter of an inch wide. This sweep is the lowest I can go on the belt sander I have, but I can take the edge down just a bit more, which I will do assuming it still stays functional with this edge profile which I assume it will.

Newt, to clarify, I don't see the loss in penetration to be a functional issue either, just mentioned it as it may be important to some. The greater durability and strength are more important to me and I would favor the tip change you implemented as well as those of blade length and width, for increased reach and overall cutting ability. How thick are you running the blade behind the edge bevel? In regards to the handle, how exactly are you holding it. It that raised point/swell inbetween the middle and ring finger, or index finger and ring finger? Is the handle any thicker than the regular RTAK?

Here is a shot from Newt's site showing the RCM, Wasp, RTAK, and AK :

http://64.227.169.223/LAK4-4-500.JPG

Matthew, it is a critical point that many issues on knives are not univeral; what one person finds heavy another will find light, what one person deems a horrible cramped handle, another will love as it fits him well. This is the biggest, and only real advantage of true custom work over high end production like from Reeves, Mission, Busse etc. .

-Cliff
 
I will try to post some information here tomorrow about the weight(s) of the new LAK4 "AK" and the RTAK. I also will post the best photo I can make showing the handle sizes up close.

The AK handle is smaller than the RTAK handle. Yep that's right! It doesn't look like it in the photo but the “AK” handle is smaller, and has more control due to some modifications of the design.

I truly HATE hunters, skinners, etc, that have finger notches or grooves cut in them. (I'm not real politically polite now am I?) I will make a finger grooved knife handle for a customer only if he is in my shop, and I can draw his hand onto the handle. There is nothing in the world worst than a nice skinner with a set of generic finger grooves. Handle grips or the style of grip that is placed on a custom/benchmade knife will vary greatly. I have tried to design and use a handle configuration such as the #2 series, and the #3 handle like on the RTAK, AK, 82nd Air Borne, Model 15, and 16s that will generally fit a large majority of the personnel that use them.
I also have to agree with Cliff on the point that weight, and handle size are in the eye of the beholder.


Newt
 
I dont know how many times ive said to people on the forums Newts handles are the best period imho.I always recommend Newts air assault.
 
A question on the large handle size of the AK, and other machetes that I have made has come up in this thread. Also the weight of such a large knife in daily usage.

As a little run down on the handles of the RTAK knife first. This knife handle has gone through two slight modifications during the time that I made it from the original drawing that I was given in 1999. The first production knife that I made had some modification too Jeff Randall’s original drawing, and again some slight modifications again on the handle about ten or twelve months ago when I was trying to tweak the handles for lack of a better word
to make it “work better.” In late 2001 I was getting ready to do a radical change on the RTAK knife by making it about 1 to 2 inches longer, and upgrade the handle design. I felt that I had hit on a better handle design that gave more control of the machete under sever extreme usage.

This point on "machete-control" was brought home to me while working in the Amazon jungle earlier this year. I lost a machete while cutting a clearing. I had just sunk a dug out canoe in a lagoon and was wet, muddy and P-oed big time. Climbing out on the bank was hard enough, but while clearing an area on the edge of the lake to work in (I thought I might be living there a day or two?) the machete took off out of my hand like a pocket rocket. It really was a little frighting to think if someone would have been in front of me I would have cleaved them. Also if I have had a little more of a arch in my swing it could have gotten my leg, etc. The design I wanted to change and wet, muddy handles did not help.

This lost of the original RTAK that I had been making, promoting, and selling for the last few years opened up a new avenue for me. As I said above I have dropped the RTAK completely from my line of knives now. With that in mind a complete change in the knife, and the freedom to redirect my ideas towards a new and better design in my estimation. The AK has a slightly longer handle, yet it is thinner in width, and girth. The photo of the two knives below shows the AK on top and the RTAK on the bottom. You can see with the new LAK4 “AK” I have made the handle swells deeper and extended the lip along the length of the pommel for added handle control.




If you look at the photo you can see the AK handle with it's deeper handle swells, thinner handle, and extended pommel lip. This extension on the lower lip of the pommel is also rounded during the manufacture process for comfort during extended usage.

The handle of the LAK4 "AK" also is only slightly longer, and the exposed pommel itself has been straighten out, and made longer for better usage. The over all belly of the AK is .250 inches wider than the RTAK, and the blade is around 2.00 inches longer. The clipped point is no longer in place, and the spine is no longer rounded. The hard squared spine lends itself too a massive crushing tool, and can also be used when striking sparks. The rounded spine would not do this before. I have added a second lanyard hole, and a .125 inch solid brass pin to my three screw handle. The knife it’s self-looks much heavier, but seems to only tip the scales at another 6 ounces of added weight.

I grind the new AK blade with re-enforced tips. I am not a big fan of tapered paper-thin tips on heavy working knives. One of the most hyped models on the market today was in our shop a while back. The customer who had broken the factory knife wanted us to make him a knife using his company made broken knife as a pattern. The knife had about three and a half inches of the tip broken off due to the thin grind. Broken tips are nothing new to knife makers, and users. I am having to replace a RTAK right now that a customer broke a tip off of? How it got broken I don’t know . . . . but I do know it did not have the re-enforce tip ground into it. All my machete and camp knives that I have ground for the Drug Task Forces, DEA, Peruvian, and United States Military usage have the re-inforced tips. A new shipment of WASP that is going to SOCOM will be carried in attack helos, have this re-inforced tip design ground right into them.

Big heavy-duty work knives are used hard and hung up wet. So my opinion they must be made to with stand the demands that are expected of them. With that I am going to say that the LAK4 “AK” knife will stand the test.

Newt Livesay
maker





http://newtlivesay.com
 
I do not know why I could not get the photo too link? I am sorry for the problem, and not knowing how to post it. If you want to see the photo go to the follow page http://newtlivesay.com and click on the AK-RTAK handle link on the far left side of the page.

Thank you, and I apologize for the problem in the photo.
Newt
 
Newt, several aspects of the design stand out as definate improvements. Some fine details were standouts as well, such as the primary grind transition in the AK is much smoother than the RTAK, which is clearly visible in in the second picture :

http://www.newtlivesay.com/NL-AK-handle-photo.htm

I personally don't find such a pointy center swell to be functional, but then grips are so variable from person to person.

-Cliff
 
Cliff:

I personally don't find such a pointy center swell to be functional, but then grips are so variable from person to person.

After playing with the "AK Survival Tool" some I have not found that much of a problem with the handle. I have had a number of people using the knife around the shop here, and so far every one seems to find it quite functional. Once the first batch hits the market place we will find out really quick how the general public likes the new handle. If it just doesn't feel right, and the bulk of the criticism gives it a thumbs down we can always change things. That is what it is all about, building a better mouse trap so to say.

Our biggest test of the "AK" is going to take place in late June and early July of this year in Northern Borneo in the South Pacific. The knife is going there to the "JWW" Jungle Warfare Survival School. The JWW is a military jungle warfare school for very high speed personnel, and is not open to the public for any reason. We have been advised that we will be provided a performance report on the knife from the personnel that will be using the AK there in the Jungle. I will be most interested in seeing what these people think of the knife?

As a closing side note I think that most users of the AK knife will find the handle gives more control, and is a user friendly grip design. But then I'm slightly bias!

Newt

Newt Livesay Web Pages
 
Newt, why is it your sandbar bowie is 1084 but other knives of similar size (such as the AK) is 1095? I thought the former steel was used because it was thought to be more apporpriet for its size class.
 
Tallwingedgoat,

Most of the Sandbar Bowies that are coming out of the shop right now are being made from 1095 high carbon. I also have a run of Sandbar Bowies that I am making right now also with D2 air hardened tool steel.

To be honest with you the biggest reason for the first batch of Sandbar Bowies being made with 1084 is that was what I had the day I started cutting knives out. I did not have any 1095 steel in a large enough sheet or thickness to cut the first run Sandbars out of so I used some 1084 sword steel that I had. The difference is so slight that the majority no one would have know the difference if I had not posted this to start with. The reason I went ahead and posted the 1084 material information was just to be correct and not try to pull the wool over on anyone.

1084 is good steel, and it along with 1095, and 5160 will heat treat about the same every time when done correctly.

Thanks for the question,
Newt
Newt Livesay Web Pages
 
Newt, thank you much for your participation and excellent explanations. I am curious about something... Apart from the handle differences and what appears to be a slight recurve in the AK knife, the AK appears to be a bigger beefier version of the RCM. What is it intended to do that the RCM is not? Why (I'm just asking for your speculation) would a jungle warfare training school like the AK better than an RCM, or are they just alternatives (catering to the differences in users) designed for the same mission?
 
Matthew,

I am curious about something... Apart from the handle differences and what appears to be a slight recurve in the AK knife,.....

Matthew first can you explain what you are talking about or asking me so I can give you a definite answer please. I think you are talking about the blade being or having a recurve in it????

Thanks
Newt

Newt Newt Livesay Web Pages
 
Hello Newt... I apologize for the confusion. My question has nothing to do with any recurve per-se... I was asking, that aside from a few differences in shape, the new AK looks to be a bigger, beefier version of the RCM. Apart from pure individual preferences, what would be the reasons or situations in which someone might choose an AK over an RCM?

Let me try to put this another way... To me they look like they are both designed to do the same thing. Are they? Under what circumstances would one want the AK instead of the RCM or the other way around?

I hope that is clearer...

Thanks.
 
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