Someone explain this one to me

45-70

45-70

Joined
Jul 10, 2003
Messages
1,601
Why is it free speach if someone burns my flag, but it's a hate crime if I burn their book?
 
Double standards. A true marker of our culture. So prevelant that most people don't even see them anymore.
 
To me it is about holding oneself to a higher moral standard. Burning a holy book because one hates the terrorist possessing it is a misguided thing, reactionary and only meant to harm.

If you can forgive the cliche, it stirs memories of the Nazis when holy books are burned. The Jewish synagogue that I belonged to as a child had a Torah in it that was pulled from the fires in Poland. Sections of it were unuseable and you could still see the charred parchment and smell the smoke.

torahs are all hand written and are very expensive. This one, however, was considered priceless.

Make no mistake, the Quran is a holy book. That the terrorists, and their leaders especially, manipulate the teachings of Islam to their own perverted ends I do not doubt but that does not lessen the importance of The Word as it is written in the Quran. I firmly believe that these terrorists, though they consider themselves martyrs in G-d's jihad, will suffer for their sins according to their religion. Perversion of G-d's word for reasons of their own and all... I don't think Allah will appreciate that much.

All of this said, I mean to make absolutely no excuses for those who burn the American flag out of hatred or those who danced in the streets after 9/11. That is what I mean about maintaining a higher standard for ourselves. Retaliation in kind is reactionary and serves no purpose. And to me, it somehow lessens us all.


just realized I didn't ever answer your question! :o I agree with bobwhite, it is a double standard. I'd just add that I think its one we should hold ourselves too.
 
True enough roughedges, but they certainly don't repect the Bible, not certain about the Torah. My church sponsors missionaries in Muslim countries. They tell us not to send Bibles. In some Muslim countries, Bibles are contraband and will be destroyed. They think nothing of destroying Christian holy items, but will go on suicide bombings in retaliation for like done to theirs. The world seems to side with them in it's lack of condemnation for their actions, and condemns us readily for ours. That is the double standard I am talking about. We are held to a higher standard, whether we choose to or not. I agree, we should try to hold a higher standard, but world opinion needs to even out it's criticizms between us and them too.
 
Bobwhite said:
We are held to a higher standard, whether we choose to or not. I agree, we should try to hold a higher standard, but world opinion needs to even out it's criticizms between us and them too.
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Again, I agree. :) And again I will add my $.2. I have troubles not doing that, sorry!

For whatever reasons, much of the rest of the world disagrees with the current war. As a result, they examine our countries actions under a friggen electron scanning microscope, not just a magnifying glass!

Right or wrong, I don't know and won't presume to guess; there are just to many sides, variables and interwoven threads to something like geopolitics for me to feel comfortable.

I start thinking into it and just end up confused. So I tend to just go with my gut. It tells me to hold ourselves to that standard willingly, regardless of what the rest of the world has to say about it.

Btw, bobwhite, forgive me if you know this already. The Torah is the first 5 books of the Bible, the Old Testament that is. I am certain that the so-called "fundamentalists" treat it just as they treat the Bible.
 
By the same double standard, it is "freedom of speech" for the Dixie Chicks to savage Bush but "infringement" of "freedom of speech" for a private party to decide not to play their music or pay them to perform. We must listen to the "correct" points of view. "Incorrect" points of view can be quashed.

When I was a child, the concept was exemplified by "No freedom of speech for Commies."

Then there is "Power to the [correct] people!" -- the motto of those in a profound minority.

Times change. Irrationality is constant.

Which is not to say that one should sink to their depths.
 
Yeah THEY condemn us but where were these people when Saddam was torturing,gassing & KILLING!! Where is the outcry about THROAT CUTTING PRISONERS??HIGHER standards,I would adhere to what Pershing did in the Phill.Hmmmm,what if we just turned Saddam loose,told him,do what you want,you can rule YOUR old way!! :mad: Wonder where the OUTCRY would be then!!
THE DUCK!
 
No problem roughedges, I do now that the Old Testament is the Torah. The Law as it is refered to by Paul in his writings. I have done some study into it, as well as the New Testament. I just couldn't say conclusively that if you take a Torah into some Muslim countries they will shred it. They will a Bible or New Testament. I get confused about all this political stuff too, but can't seem to stay out of it completely, much to my dismay. I have doubts about the war, religion, politics and everything in else in life. My brother in law is a Muslim from Guinea. I have freinds not of my faith. My wife is almost the opposite of me politically. I just keep trying to learn and understand. I don't think we are in oposition about anything here, just looking from slightly different perspectives.
 
I think it's all context. Lemme try a hypothetical. Suppose some protestors burn a US flag in the parking lot of your nearest Wal-Mart. Would it piss you off? Of course. Would it frighten you? Probably not.

Now suppose you're living in some other country, perhaps a work assignment or something. And a mob down the street from where you life is shouting death to America and burning an American flag. I'd be at least a bit nervous.

Defacing a Koran here might just be about indimidating people living here of middle eastern background. I knew a guy who was Iranian but pro-Shaw and Jewish. But his skin was a brown and I suspect that he'd get a bit nervous if there was a Koran-burning rally near him. Heck, some people can't tell the difference between Sikh's and Arabs.

I've got to say though, I have some problems with the concept of "hate crime" -- if you murder someone because they're black, you should get locked up for murder. Justice should be blind.
 
BruiseLeee said:
How come you get to add twenty cents when others can only add two cents?

:confused: :) ;)
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Because not only does he make sense, he's a mathematician. :D Answer me this one, Why do I have to "spread it around" when I haven't given anyone rep for a few days? His last two posts certainly diserve some....
 
Bobwhite:

"We are held" or "we hold ourselves" to a higher standard of behavior?



What concerns me is that we are judged to a higher standard of behavior than others. It's like the Supreme court ruling, it appears that we are being hemmed in judicially, morally , as well as legislatively.

BTW, why does he get karma cactui and I don't?

*pout*
 
45-70 said:
BTW, why does he get karma cactui and I don't?

*pout*
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Better quit that pouting, a bird will come along and hop up on that lip and take a sh*t.:rolleyes: :p ;) :D

Besides who says you don't? And the points I gave FallingKnife gave him buck teef.:cool: :D
 
heh. I'd blame my zero key but that won't fly. Math did always give me a headache.

2 cents...18....20. I'll take whatever I can get!
 
those of us who have not learned from history are forced to repeat it.

the barbarians are at the gates, while we sit in our villa's sipping wine and having polite political discussion about what bad people we are for offending them. some of them have come over the wall already. i'd be heading down to the forum and petitioning the emperor to raise more legions and arm the citizenry.....
 
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