Recommendation? Something is off. Need advice

Justin Schmidt

Justin Schmidt

Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
2,209
So I'm working on this 7.5in hunter/utility EDC knife and there's just something "off" with the blade shape. It was supposed to be a clip point. What do you guys think?

UCE66or.jpg
 
Fixed it but idk I'm still not happy with it. And I kind a jacked the grind up attempting to grind with a very dull belt. So I'll just toss it and start over this is probably why I haven't completed a knife and I've him through so much metal (Well over 15') it's just never good enough to send to HT
LgwrMOG.jpg
 
My recommendation for you is to design on paper the exact shape and size you like, then I would actually file the bevels instead of starting out with the grinder.
I use a rasp hose clamped to a piece of 2'' square pipe about 4' long, I lay the pipe over a piece of train rail that is set about 2' away from where my blade is clamped, this works very well for getting a flat even bevel and doesn't take that much longer, I could bevel that knife in 1 hour with this method.
 
Sharpe5097 said:
Cant u just do a full grind on both sides. I thought knife making was about making mistakes and fixing them. Keep going.
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Oh for sure I could. But it's just not quite good enough. And for me to have to hand sand up to 400 grit then pay to get it heat treated. It's just not good enough for me
 
BearPawBlacksmithing said:
My recommendation for you is to design on paper the exact shape and size you like, then I would actually file the bevels instead of starting out with the grinder.
I use a rasp hose clamped to a piece of 2'' square pipe about 4' long, I lay the pipe over a piece of train rail that is set about 2' away from where my blade is clamped, this works very well for getting a flat even bevel and doesn't take that much longer, I could bevel that knife in 1 hour with this method.
Click to expand...
Sounds pretty interesting. Do you happen to have a picture of this setup? I'm having a hard time imagining it.
 
One of the best pieces of advice I got on this forum is to always complete your knives when you're starting out. It's not just about the blade design and how it looks, but learning the process. Just like shooting an arrow isn't enough, you need to follow through.
I would suggest you complete these knives and consider this as a learning experience. That way when you design a knife and love the way it turns out, you have the rest of the process figured out.
 
You threw away 15 feet of steel so far?! :eek: There are starving children in China that would kill to have that steel to make knives! No child labor restrictions, y'know? :D

I agree the best thing to do is finish making the darn things, and keep making more of them. Most people's first knives aren't very good... Every time I look at mine I realize how totally crap it is, LOL. In fact, my first five are embarrassing, and I wouldn't give those away now. But I learned and am still learning from every knife I finish. And I use my first knife all the time, just did today to make a sandwich right before checking the forum.

Also, some things you can read about and think you know but never truly understand and get good at doing unless you actually do them and practice until you get good.

I hope you have 1080/1084, that way you can backyard HT with two propane torches (aim them at one another and pass your blade inbetween) or forced air charcoal fire, then quench into canola oil. No need to send out to HT. The insight that you gain into the processes of making, as well as in design and geometry, is well worth the time you invest making knives that "aren't good enough".
 
I'm a bit curious about the hollow you ground in the handle and how it goes all the way through the heel of the handle?
Otherwise I think it'll look decent.
~billyO
 
milkbaby said:
You threw away 15 feet of steel so far?! :eek: There are starving children in China that would kill to have that steel to make knives! No child labor restrictions, y'know? :D

I agree the best thing to do is finish making the darn things, and keep making more of them. Most people's first knives aren't very good... Every time I look at mine I realize how totally crap it is, LOL. In fact, my first five are embarrassing, and I wouldn't give those away now. But I learned and am still learning from every knife I finish. And I use my first knife all the time, just did today to make a sandwich right before checking the forum.

Also, some things you can read about and think you know but never truly understand and get good at doing unless you actually do them and practice until you get good.

I hope you have 1080/1084, that way you can backyard HT with two propane torches (aim them at one another and pass your blade inbetween) or forced air charcoal fire, then quench into canola oil. No need to send out to HT. The insight that you gain into the processes of making, as well as in design and geometry, is well worth the time you invest making knives that "aren't good enough".
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Haha most of that has been welding metal. But I've burned through some AEBL and 1095. I'm working with 80crv2 now. So no backyard HT. I'm not a fan of doing the most crucial part myself with torches. so I've planned on sending it to JT for heat treating, I heard he does great work.
I wasn't worried about the bevels on this knife I could have fixed it with 120g and hand sanding. And I still might. But I went back to the drawing board and studied some of my favorite makers designs (TK Ssteingass in particular) and came up with this.
LQT2orJ.jpg

Hopefully my belts from combat Abbrassives show up tomorrow and I will grind in the bevels and hand sand to prep to send it off to hear treat.
 
If I may.
Id say do more on paper before you hit steel just because its much cheaper to scrap a page then steel.
Then make a scrap "template" that you can refine
I like plexiglass cause i have scraps in diff thickness. Then a few drops of super glue and some cheap pallet wood to handle the plexiglass.

If you do this you can pretty much get a design 93 percent "tuned" then pop your fake scales off and you have a nice see through blade template, and a set of mocked up handle scales without ruining anything.

Just my 2. Not trying to be that guy lol.
 
valknut said:
Haha most of that has been welding metal. But I've burned through some AEBL and 1095. I'm working with 80crv2 now. So no backyard HT. I'm not a fan of doing the most crucial part myself with torches. so I've planned on sending it to JT for heat treating, I heard he does great work.
Click to expand...

Ed Fowler and Dave Ellis are ABS Mastersmiths that heat treat by torch (probably oxyacetylene), so it's entirely doable and can make a very fine knife from the right choice of steel when the process is dialed in. And seeing as 1084 is inexpensive and the easy to heat treat, basically bring it up to austenitizing temp then quench, that is why it's the most often recommended steel to use when starting out.

Don't poopoo 1084, you can make great knives from it. Mastersmith testing requires damascus steel forged by the applicant, and I bet the most common mix is 1095/15N20 which averages out similar to about 1084 after carbon migration.

I understand many makers send out for HT because it's easier when using steels with more complex HT, but they are also doing so because they believe these steels are a good choice and more marketable for knives they're selling to their customers. If you're just learning, I believe it's more important to be learning than worrying about how easily marketable your choice of steel is. That's just my opinion though, no offense.

Your latest profiled piece looks nice. Good luck with the grind! :thumbsup:
 
milkbaby said:
Ed Fowler and Dave Ellis are ABS Mastersmiths that heat treat by torch (probably oxyacetylene), so it's entirely doable and can make a very fine knife from the right choice of steel when the process is dialed in. And seeing as 1084 is inexpensive and the easy to heat treat, basically bring it up to austenitizing temp then quench, that is why it's the most often recommended steel to use when starting out.

Don't poopoo 1084, you can make great knives from it. Mastersmith testing requires damascus steel forged by the applicant, and I bet the most common mix is 1095/15N20 which averages out similar to about 1084 after carbon migration.

I understand many makers send out for HT because it's easier when using steels with more complex HT, but they are also doing so because they believe these steels are a good choice and more marketable for knives they're selling to their customers. If you're just learning, I believe it's more important to be learning than worrying about how easily marketable your choice of steel is. That's just my opinion though, no offense.

Your latest profiled piece looks nice. Good luck with the grind! :thumbsup:
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That makes alot of sense I can dig it. 80crv2 has a basic HT also. Heat to 1545-1615 hold for 5 minutes. Temper twice at 450.
Idk i just didn't think backyard HT was as professional. And I don't plan on selling knives anytime soon. That could lead to a very bad snowball effect
ETA: just saw you are in Florida. What part? I'm just south of ocala
 
For 80CrV2, 1545-1615 is the temperature for the second step of normalizing. HT should be 1475-1500.

IIRC, the normalizing and hardening procedure for 80CrV2 is:
1650 and hold for 5 minutes ... cool to black
1550 and hold for 5 minutes .... cool to black
1450 and hold for 5 minutes, cool to black, or quench in 130F canola and cool to room temp.
1474-1500F and hold for 5 minutes and quench in 130F canola
Temper twice for an hour each at 400-450F
 
valknut said:
Haha most of that has been welding metal. But I've burned through some AEBL and 1095. I'm working with 80crv2 now. So no backyard HT. I'm not a fan of doing the most crucial part myself with torches. so I've planned on sending it to JT for heat treating, I heard he does great work.
I wasn't worried about the bevels on this knife I could have fixed it with 120g and hand sanding. And I still might. But I went back to the drawing board and studied some of my favorite makers designs (TK Ssteingass in particular) and came up with this.
LQT2orJ.jpg

Hopefully my belts from combat Abbrassives show up tomorrow and I will grind in the bevels and hand sand to prep to send it off to hear treat.
Click to expand...
That shape is awesome! Keep us posted if you wouldn't mind.
 
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