Recommendation? Something is off. Need advice

I'm with sprayman - very interested in seeing your layout. I have several unground blanks to work up into knives, with not a lot of room to work with. Your setup sounds perfect for the space I have.

Provided, of course, that you don't mind a noob like me swiping your idea. ;)

~Chris
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
For 80CrV2, 1545-1615 is the temperature for the second step of normalizing. HT should be 1475-1500.

IIRC, the normalizing and hardening procedure for 80CrV2 is:
1650 and hold for 5 minutes ... cool to black
1550 and hold for 5 minutes .... cool to black
1450 and hold for 5 minutes, cool to black, or quench in 130F canola and cool to room temp.
1474-1500F and hold for 5 minutes and quench in 130F canola
Temper twice for an hour each at 400-450F
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And this is exactly why I planned on sending it out to JT lol
@BearPawBlacksmithing yeah man too easy thanks for the compliment
 
valknut said:
That makes alot of sense I can dig it. 80crv2 has a basic HT also. Heat to 1545-1615 hold for 5 minutes. Temper twice at 450.
Idk i just didn't think backyard HT was as professional. And I don't plan on selling knives anytime soon. That could lead to a very bad snowball effect
ETA: just saw you are in Florida. What part? I'm just south of ocala
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I'm not far away in Gainesville. I only do stock removal with a 1x30 on 1084 and 15N20 and HT myself in a little two brick forge with canola oil for quenching. It gets the job done though! I have some Alabama Damascus, 1095, and prelaminated Hitachi san mai steel for when I feel confident enough to work on them.

I've only made kitchen knives so far because that's my passion. I was inspired by Japanese makers who I believe the vast majority HT their simple carbon knives by eye in a forge which is basically backyard HT. And their knives sell for hundreds to thousands of dollars.

I think that once you start finishing knives, you'll be pleasantly surprised how nicely they can perform even when you're just starting out.
 
valknut said:
And this is exactly why I planned on sending it out to JT lol
@BearPawBlacksmithing yeah man too easy thanks for the compliment
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What Stacy pointed out are treatments after Forging...You are Doing stock Removal...Simple backyard heat treatment is all that is required for hardening Your 80CrV2. If you were doing Alloys like stainless then Yes JT can fix you up.

Most Makers want to OWN the whole process from design to finished product that is why it's important to know how to do each and every process. You can gain a wealth of knowledge by doing your own backyard heat treating with a simple home made firebrick forge as someone noted above you should check it out!


 
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I understand what your saying busto. I just feel like with the most important part of knife making should be led t to pros with proper temp control and what not.
 
valknut said:
I understand what your saying busto. I just feel like with the most important part of knife making should be led t to pros with proper temp control and what not.
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From what I can tell, you have scrapped the other knife blanks that you've ground up because you didn't find them worthy enough of investing money in Heat treating. So what we are trying to say here is that since you are not sending those blades for heat treatment anyways, why not do it yourself. It's a good learning experience.
They aren't saying that you should do all your blades with the brick forge, but atleast start with the ones that you've scrapped and learn the process than to wait for a perfect knife that can be heat treated professionally.
You can always send your good designs to JT for heat treatment in the future. But I would suggest to ht them yourself and finish them before moving on to trying to get the best blade you can. Knife making is a process that's largely learnt from your mistakes.
 
valknut said:
I understand what your saying busto. I just feel like with the most important part of knife making should be led t to pros with proper temp control and what not.
Click to expand...

With minimal investment for 2 bricks and a torch and some bolts and angle iron you can easily heat treat any of the carbon steels. The key to getting better is to know where you are Currently on how the blade performs. You can grind 3 blades and the next day heat treat them for testing Ugly blades or Perfect blades the heat treat can't tell the difference but you can tell by testing. Simple steel is EASY you get it up to Red Hot Currie Point of transformation 1450-1500 test with a magnet don't trust your eyes to ensure non-magnetic hold for a couple minutes then plunge into Canola warmed to 120-130 degrees VOILA hardened steel. I probably did my first 30+ knives this way and learned A LOT...I still do knives with my forge sometimes easier to do than my Kilns.

Yes it's an important part of the process, and one you should certainly learn like many here in this forum have learned...You might be teaching us in the future!!!!
 
[QUOTE="
Yes it's an important part of the process, and one you should certainly learn like many here in this forum have learned...You might be teaching us in the future!!!![/QUOTE]

This is cool.
 
Busto said:
With minimal investment for 2 bricks and a torch and some bolts and angle iron you can easily heat treat any of the carbon steels. The key to getting better is to know where you are Currently on how the blade performs. You can grind 3 blades and the next day heat treat them for testing Ugly blades or Perfect blades the heat treat can't tell the difference but you can tell by testing. Simple steel is EASY you get it up to Red Hot Currie Point of transformation 1450-1500 test with a magnet don't trust your eyes to ensure non-magnetic hold for a couple minutes then plunge into Canola warmed to 120-130 degrees VOILA hardened steel. I probably did my first 30+ knives this way and learned A LOT...I still do knives with my forge sometimes easier to do than my Kilns.

Yes it's an important part of the process, and one you should certainly learn like many here in this forum have learned...You might be teaching us in the future!!!!
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Ok you've made your point and convinced me lol well AKS reccomends 1545-1615 and hold for 5 minutes. How would I know when it reaches the austrntizing temp?
 
Steel when heated to Red Hot has a Great Indicator....Best to be done in low light like the evening or in a dark area like a garage or shop. When the steel passes from dull Red (has a ghost shadow around the middle of the blade) to Full Red which you can easily see if you are in a darkened area the whole blade is the same color full Red you are in the full transformation area and the steel should not attract a magnet...now to be more sophisticated if you want to be Dead Nuts on 1545 or 1615 you could spend money on a hand held Thermocouple and Temp Reader, but you can see there is a large area of temperature to work in...Once you hit the Full Red start the timer hold 5 minutes make sure that the entire blade is getting that even heat even if you have move the blade back and forth in and out of the center of the flame zone so that there are no cold spots...Test with a Magnet and dunk that sucker in the Oil...I usually heat the oil with a piece of scrap steel as the forge is coming up to temp and dunk it first. Then once quenched give the File test to see if the blade got hard...
 
I knew I could go to non magnetic but I thought that was only 1450. Which wouldn't get to the proper austentizing temp. I think @Atlas Knife Company sales thermometer for the forges. Or maybe one of those laser temp gagues from HF.
 
I am also starting out. I started in Jan. I will give you more encouragement to start with some backyard heat treatment.

I was very surprised and impressed with how good the blades were that I have done myself. I have sent them to knife using friends and they are very happy with the performance as well. 1084 tempered at 400 is a massive difference compared to a walmart old timer.

Also mistakes don t just happen before you harden a blade. Right now many of the blades im making are testers. Many times something is a little off and I change a blade. If all of your first blades are sent out for heat treatment you will have a huge investment money and turnaround time.

You get a lot of advise around here to complete all of your knives. It's good advice. I understand that sometimes it's not what you want to do. I toss them in a pile and ignore that advise. But I found as my skills have grown and I am paying for steel most of them have come back out of the pile and have been used. And I learned. Being able to take it to my back yard and use my little atlas forge has saved a lot of steel and I have had a lotbof fun. The knives are also getting better.

I have AEB-L and CPM M4 that I have to send out. But before I so im going to try out my blade design and make sure i like it wuth something like 1084 or 80CrV2
 
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skillgannon said:
I am also starting out. I started in Jan. I will give you more encouragement to start with some backyard heat treatment.

I was very surprised and impressed with how good the blades were that I have done myself. I have sent them to knife using friends and they are very happy with the performance as well. 1084 tempered at 400 is a massive difference compared to a walmart old timer.

Also mistakes don t just happen before you harden a blade. Right now many of the blades im making are testers. Many times something is a little off and I change a blade. If all of your first blades are sent out for heat treatment you will have a huge investment money and turnaround time.

You get a lot of advise around here to complete all of your knives. It's good advice. I understand that sometimes it's not what you want to do. I toss them in a pile and ignore that advise. But I found as my skills have grown and I am paying for steel most of them have come back out of the pile and have been used. And I learned. Being able to take it to my back yard and use my little atlas forge has saved a lot of steel and I have had a lotbof fun. The knives are also getting better.

I have AEB-L and CPM M4 that I have to send out. But before I so im going to try out my blade design and make sure i like it wuth something like 1084 or 80CrV2
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Yeah I've decided to take that advice and build a 2 brick forge for HT. So this way I CAN finish some knives lol. I 2ish I could afford an atlas forge but that's a no go right now.
 
valknut said:
I knew I could go to non magnetic but I thought that was only 1450. Which wouldn't get to the proper austentizing temp. I think @Atlas Knife Company sales thermometer for the forges. Or maybe one of those laser temp gagues from HF.
Click to expand...

Those HF Lazer temp readers will not read in the Hotter temp zone we use for Heat Treating...You need to think about all the Knives and Swords that were completed over the ages that were done with no electronic gadgetry to read temps. Build the little forge and give it a try with a file after you quench the blade I think you'll be surprised how easy it was to harden the steel.
 
That's a good point. I think they had very simple steels compared to now but I see what your saying. I'm gonna buy some firebrick from eBay tonight or tomorrow. For only 5 bucks a piece I can't complain
 
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