Sooo... Noss4 tested the Bravo 1

H

Hawkings

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Mar 31, 2006
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Noss4 did his number on the Bravo1...........and it went by in silence ?
I would have thought this would generate a thread or two.

Did I miss 'em :confused:
 
Sooo...

So what? Noss4 tested, or Noss4 put on a show. It's great entertainment for the bored or uninformed. Testing it is not. Visual trolling, perhaps. :) And we've had the same back & forth arguments about his "testing" several times already.

Have fun. Stay polite. No insults or vulgarity. please.
 
BRKT convex grinds are done by hand a vary in thickness. I've seen bravo1's that were thick enough to chop bricks (pun intended) and others that would roll a edge making a fuzz stick.

Ever hit a thinnly ground knife on something very hard?

Do you ever expect to use a bravo1 the way noss did?

Do YOU consider these valid tests of a knifes abilities?

I have previous knowledge that allows me to understand why the knife "failed" in the ways it did. Its also the reason I sometimes watch the "tests" when I need a good laugh.



FYI, Tests are usually repeated, someone breaking a single knife is entertainment.
 
Well Noss did, as Noss usually do.
It was more the lack of heated discussion I was wondering if I missed it (I kinda like it :o ), the Bravo 1 being....well, the bravo1.
 
It drops my jaw every time when he picks up the hammer and starts beating wildly on a blade into a concrete block. Then banters like this is regular activity.
 
Lets keep things Non-heated, we've had enough of these threads blow up into pissing matches with everyone facing the wind. Do a search for previous threads and take note of how they are locked.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Lets keep things Non-heated, we've had enough of these threads blow up into pissing matches with everyone facing the wind. Do a search for previous threads and take note of how they are locked.
Click to expand...

Were the Bravo 1 tests locked because forum rules were broken? if so by whom?
 
Falcor said:
Were the Bravo 1 tests locked because forum rules were broken? if so by whom?
Click to expand...

Do a search, look them up, see who locked them and what reason he gave. One reason threads like these get locked is for running on to the point they become repetitious, and the posts are reduced to "yes, it is" or "no, it isn't", complete with personal attacks and profanity.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Lets keep things Non-heated, we've had enough of these threads blow up into pissing matches with everyone facing the wind. Do a search for previous threads and take note of how they are locked.
Click to expand...

I see you felt comfortable sharing your opinion without censorship. I had a Bravo-1 through a couple sharpenings which had left significant rolling in the A2 from contact with hard material.

The knife is very stout and thick but the edge on mine at least was quite fine and polished. I would not say the edge was delicate but the feel of the blade could lead to some learning experiences in sharpening for a hard-use user.
 
Not a opinion but fact just like you stated yourself. The blades are hand ground and some end up thicker and some thinner. Noss probably got a thinner grind like my brothers B2 and when you bash thin steel against rock you get the results seen. My brothers B2 had a very thin grind and would roll badly with light wood work but after some reshaping has been a exceptional performer. Too much faith is put into factory sharpenings and when things like this happen its always the knife itself or the company that gets questioned.

A knifes grind can vary when done by hand and thin metal is more easily damaged is all I was saying.
 
he raged at me when i commented on his gränsfors bruks vid saying they were handmade and what he did was rather disrespectfull.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Not a opinion but fact just like you stated yourself. The blades are hand ground and some end up thicker and some thinner. Noss probably got a thinner grind like my brothers B2 and when you bash thin steel against rock you get the results seen. My brothers B2 had a very thin grind and would roll badly with light wood work but after some reshaping has been a exceptional performer. Too much faith is put into factory sharpenings and when things like this happen its always the knife itself or the company that gets questioned.

A knifes grind can vary when done by hand and thin metal is more easily damaged is all I was saying.
Click to expand...

So we are in agreement then about thin edges. I believe the BRKT crew has the best factory convex edges outside of CS Japan or a handmaker.

Extremely sharp but like you say, just because it is ground to a razors edge does not mean it was done so to facilitate chopping up a fossilized 2x4 or stone as in this case.

I am all for Noss posting the results of his demos on the combat hard use beaters but when you use more refined blades like the Bravo 2 in his format it deteriorates the edge so rapidly it is really no longer testing the cutting capability.

Take the ESEE 4 for instance, the factories edge should hold up much better to meat fisted techique like Noss displays. That does not mean it is necessarily better(and the finish certainly is not), but may be more what a Noss fan is looking for in a from the box user.
 
I agree, the Dude does beat the crap out of the knives he "tests." Like Esav said, it's a sort of entertainment... I find it entertaining in a twisted sort of way. I for one, don't grab my knives an try and destroy a cinder block or do blade on blade hammering like I'm playing pencils with knife blades. Buuuut, to each his own.
Rock On!
YKW out
 
Oh good, the thread was restarted! The previous thread on this topic was relegated to the dumbass section of BF.

GrinderMcgee said:
So we are in agreement then about thin edges. I believe the BRKT crew has the best factory convex edges outside of CS Japan or a handmaker.

Extremely sharp but like you say, just because it is ground to a razors edge does not mean it was done so to facilitate chopping up a fossilized 2x4 or stone as in this case.
Click to expand...
What in the videos indicates fossilization of the 2x4's on which the edge rolled? Also, were not the batonning and chopping into wood consistent with expected use of the blade given the advertising and labelling of the knife as 'indestructible', 'hard-use', etc.?
I agree that the BRKT Bravo1 convex edge is fantastic... for cutting meat, soft wood, etc... but for 'hard-use'? So fine an edge is hardly suitable and should not be labelled as such.

I am all for Noss posting the results of his demos on the combat hard use beaters but when you use more refined blades like the Bravo 2 in his format it deteriorates the edge so rapidly it is really no longer testing the cutting capability.
Click to expand...
The advertising and hype around this blade suggested it is a 'combat hard use' knife, the Bravo2 moreso - if not, why make it so large and thick?
'More refined blades'?? Do you mean 'safe-queen'? Honestly, I am curious...
As to cutting ability, that is what is investigated on the webbing after such harsh treatment on the wood - how well does the blade retain its edge, how much maintenance is required to keep it performing well after strenuous use.

Take the ESEE 4 for instance, the factories edge should hold up much better... That does not mean it is necessarily better(and the finish certainly is not), but may be more what a Noss fan is looking for in a from the box user.
Click to expand...
Noss did 'test' an ESEE-4 and it did indeed perform much better (and at a much lower cost$, though Noss makes no mention of this, if I recall correctly). As to the 'finish', how does that factor in beyond aesthetics for a safe-queen? No one questions that the Bravo1 is a pretty knife, nor any other BRKT - great F&F! But there was a general expectation regarding the performance level of this particular blade... and it fell drastically short.

I agree, edge-geometry was a primary factor in explaining the poor performance, though there is also some question as to why the edge then chipped so drastically when subjected to concrete impacts when the rolled-edge suggested a softer (more durable) HT - I personally expected severe compaction, not chipping... But I'm neither a maker nor a metallurgist.

My guess is also that many a Noss-fan is military, looking for an honest review of a knife that caters to his/her specific needs. A pretty satin blade and polished handle is probably pretty low on their list of important factors in knife performance *shrug*
 
A BRKT BooneII was also 'tested' and performed quite well in the demonstrations, but I believe it did not carry the same 'indestructible/hard-use' hype and so did not generate the same sort of response from viewers.

That said, I still think the Bravo1 is a great knife, and it suits some of my needs exceptionally well - I'll not be selling it anytime soon. But neither will I likely be batonning with it, nor will I use it for carving harder woods without expecting, as you said, 'some learning experiences in sharpening' :) Excellent advice for unwary users :thumbup:
 
chiral.grolim said:
Oh good, the thread was restarted! The previous thread on this topic was relegated to the dumbass section of BF.


What in the videos indicates fossilization of the 2x4's on which the edge rolled? Also, were not the batonning and chopping into wood consistent with expected use of the blade given the advertising and labelling of the knife as 'indestructible', 'hard-use', etc.?
I agree that the BRKT Bravo1 convex edge is fantastic... for cutting meat, soft wood, etc... but for 'hard-use'? So fine an edge is hardly suitable and should not be labelled as such.

The advertising and hype around this blade suggested it is a 'combat hard use' knife, the Bravo2 moreso - if not, why make it so large and thick?
'More refined blades'?? Do you mean 'safe-queen'? Honestly, I am curious...
As to cutting ability, that is what is investigated on the webbing after such harsh treatment on the wood - how well does the blade retain its edge, how much maintenance is required to keep it performing well after strenuous use.

Noss did 'test' an ESEE-4 and it did indeed perform much better (and at a much lower cost$, though Noss makes no mention of this, if I recall correctly). As to the 'finish', how does that factor in beyond aesthetics for a safe-queen? No one questions that the Bravo1 is a pretty knife, nor any other BRKT - great F&F! But there was a general expectation regarding the performance level of this particular blade... and it fell drastically short.

I agree, edge-geometry was a primary factor in explaining the poor performance, though there is also some question as to why the edge then chipped so drastically when subjected to concrete impacts when the rolled-edge suggested a softer (more durable) HT - I personally expected severe compaction, not chipping... But I'm neither a maker nor a metallurgist.

My guess is also that many a Noss-fan is military, looking for an honest review of a knife that caters to his/her specific needs. A pretty satin blade and polished handle is probably pretty low on their list of important factors in knife performance *shrug*
Click to expand...

I looked for it, but I can't seem to find it.
Would anyone be kind enough to point me in the right direction, please ?
 
I like my Bravo 1. I have chosen it as my main (for now) mid size fixed blade after playing with Swamprat Ratmandu, Fallknivens and Busses (actually only had/have 6"+ Busses). All good knives. All have advantages and disadvantages. I don't care about brand loyalty, I choose what works for me.

I have commented in other related threads, so I might as well do it here.


The video is fun to watch (fast forwarding often) and some information can be extracted.

The edge deformation while batoning was a bit unexpected, but didn't surprise me too much. BRKTs are ground thin and in my edge study I found convex on my Bravo 1 to be very shallow, it is almost like zero scandi grind.
Here is a thread if you're interested.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=775806

I have batoned mine with no ill effects, there are several videos on youtube of people batoning with Bravo 1 (a lot in some cases) with no problems. Why edge deformed in Noss' video? Well, I might be wrong, but it seems to me that he batoned through two knots in 2x4. One at 4:10, and one at 5:10. The last one was right in the beginning of the cut and he was really hitting it hard. Was the blade at the angle or not, I don't really know. It wouldn't be a problem for a beefy obtuse edge, where a lot of metal supports it, but I wouldn't drive my finer Bravo 1 edge through such knot on purpose. Such knots in dried wood can be very hard and unpredictable. 20 degree edge isn't built for hammering.

Fast forwarding....
Tip ok

Fast forwarding...
Part 3:
06:25 and further....different kind of batoning...Even with badly damaged edge it bites into the wood pretty good and goes deep even though it has 0.215" spine. Thanks to the hammer of course. RC-4 did well here too, it has quite thinner profile. Busse ASH-1 for example wasn't as good for such task, because of thick profile and thick edge.

Fast forwarding....
Concrete.... again thin edge. I would've been surprised to see anything different.

Fast forward....
Part 6:
Holds bouncing body weight (225 pounds?). Good enough for my purposes. RC-4 broke here with questionably the same load (bouncing weight is a weird thing).

Next...
Part of the blade broke off during "flex test". Hm... Well, I thought it would take a bit more pulling. On the other hand, don't really know what happened to the steel while it was hammered into cinder blocks with mallet before that.

Well with knife destroyed, it would be interesting to smash handles with 2x4 couple of times. I'm pretty sure they will hold, but why not to destroy them now....


Is Bravo 1 a hard use knife? Well it is one of the toughest built in BRKT line in that blade lenght. BRKTs are cutters. Edge is not designed for extreme abuse. Why would one want a thick spine on a cuter? How about overall blade toughness. It does support bouncing 225lb weight after all :). Thickness is also good for batoning and when done correctly, it splits wood nicely and edge holds up just fine. For batoning through frozen logs a different knife (or axe) might be a better idea. Edge can be re-profiled for additional toughness if needed as well.
Is it good for military? Well apparently Kabar USMC isn't, even though it is issued most often, so I don't really know how to answer that question.



Some other thoughts in general.....
It’s about Knifetests, so I might as well post it here.


I have no problems with Noss' videos, and wouldn't mind watching some more... But what he does is not as repeatable as one might think. You can say that it is repeatable, but I have batoned with my knife, it was fine, there are plenty of videos on youtube with B1 batoting. Can I find exactly the same 2x4 with such knot? Of course not. Even if I could, would I drive my B1 though hardened knot on purpose? Hmm... Probably not. I did test my B1, I did do couple of small knots. Maybe not bad knots... it came out good, but doing it on purpose again... What for? To work on my sharpening skills restoring 20 degree edge?

I definitely have a problem with Noss' ratings, many of his comments and some ideology in general.
The main problem with it is that cutting (the main purpose of the knife) is only secondary. Even on "hard use knife", cutting is quite important (it is a knife after all). It's not really a problem for me because I have enough experience to know what to look for in a knife and in those videos, but it gives some novice a very wrong idea about the knife reviewed and about knife use in general.

Geometry plays a very big role in both cutting and tougness performance. It is disregarded completely and left for viewer to figure out through other sources. One might say that it is tested by practical application, but without any information about it ahead of time, without extensive cutting tests, all what is done is checking it for toughness without caring to answer why such and such result is received during toughness tests, leaving some doubts about result reliability. It is because it is.

One knife is "tested" and the whole line is labeled. No statistics. Do I know that another knife will behave exactly the same way? It is left for viewer to figure out, through destruction of his own knife. Otherwise the result is held as the only truth, and it is preached to uninformed, as a "good knife" or "bad knife". Good or bad for whom? For what purpose? Hard use? What exactly is it? How is it defined? Those who "know" will figure it out, those who don't will be left at preachers mercy.
As a good example I might bring up Kabar USMC again. I know it is not the toughest knife out there and it has it’s limitations.... But knife is classic and probably is the most used knife by US military. Yet, it turns out that it is not worthy... Oh well... If Noss says so....
 
I chimed on a previous thread but it quickly disappeared. I agree with the bulk of effer's post but in the end I am not so happy with my Bravo 1. I bought it having read the "U.S. Marine Corp Force Recon Training Unit" advertising, and was expecting a fairly bombproof knife for general hunting/camping/woods use. Out of the box it looked like a million bucks, a beautiful, solid looking knife with a very keen edge. I'm used to inexpensive knives so I had to talk myself into actually using it for what I had intended. I field dressed a doe last fall, splitting the pelvis, and had to spend a long time sharpening out the damage to the edge. I recently lightly battoned some thin, clean hickory for a camp fire and again had to sharpen out a good amount of edge deformation. I'm not really keen on using a knife for a purpose that I know will damage the edge that badly, so I'm down to light slicing, a job that the Bravo 1 does well, unless you are slicing apples or harder vegetables, where the thickness of the knife makes it less useful. I don't know, maybe I got a dud.
 
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