Sooo .... What's the "proper" edge angle?

I've heard plenty of folks say that a tool could use an improvement in geometry, or other similar descriptors to the same end. When saying that a tool could use sharpening then you're saying that the geometry specific to the edge needs work, rather than other aspects of the total blade geometry. Again, sharpness is a subset of total geometry--it's the width of the edge apex. You say sharpening to describe the procedure of narrowing the width of that apex, but if you were to also alter the bevel angle then you'd be doing work beyond the scope of sharpening alone--you'd be reprofiling.
 
Forty two, that's not the way I see it. A re profiling or alteration is a consequence of sharpening, you don't specifically sharpen to change the profile of the edge, you sharpen it to make it cut better. I am sure that many a woodsman, over time, changed the profile of his axe simply by doing nothing other than sharpen it. I would bet London to a brick that some of the bevel profiles discussed at length, started life as a flat bevel. The guys had no need to re profile their axes because they did not break them however, over time and as a non intended consequence of sharpening, the axe cut better and better to an optimum point. That's when they probably had a good look at the profile and attempted to measure it or quantify the shape and thence reproduce it. That unfortunately is not how it works. For instance and I know I am preaching to the converted here, so many things about different axes are similar but not the same. I watched a video of you using a type of hatchet, I assume it was you, and not being disrespectful, it did not do what you described. It was an axe that I would love to have in my kit, perhaps when the Aussie dollar gets better I will buy one. It sounded exceptional and to say that might seem strange but I know it was exceptional, sharp and all, but it did not appear to cut. I am but a simple man, not really interested in the the long drawn out explanations of theory, but I can tell you, I know when an axe cuts, what feels and sounds right and together with that, can put it all into practice. I have som terrific, simple aids I use to get the basics happening with an axe, I am happy to share them too, just let me know if you might like me to share with you and I will do my best. Here's to your next sharp axe. Cheers, ICS
 
ICS said:
Forty two, that's not the way I see it. A re profiling or alteration is a consequence of sharpening, you don't specifically sharpen to change the profile of the edge, you sharpen it to make it cut better.
Click to expand...

One may both sharpen and reprofile in the same action. The two are not mutually exclusive. Reprofiling is an alteration of the bevel geometry preceding the apex. Simple sharpening ideally maintains the original edge bevel geometry, just following the same trajectory to restore a sufficiently thin apex. Reprofiling is an alteration of that trajectory. When one buys a new axe reprofiling is nearly always a necessity because if one were to simply sharpen at the factory "courtesy grind" angle you'd get a sharp axe that still doesn't cut worth beans because the preceding bevel is so thick. And factors that make an axe cut better are directly the result of geometry.

ICS said:
I am sure that many a woodsman, over time, changed the profile of his axe simply by doing nothing other than sharpen it. I would bet London to a brick that some of the bevel profiles discussed at length, started life as a flat bevel. The guys had no need to re profile their axes because they did not break them however, over time and as a non intended consequence of sharpening, the axe cut better and better to an optimum point. That's when they probably had a good look at the profile and attempted to measure it or quantify the shape and thence reproduce it. That unfortunately is not how it works. For instance and I know I am preaching to the converted here, so many things about different axes are similar but not the same. I watched a video of you using a type of hatchet, I assume it was you, and not being disrespectful, it did not do what you described. It was an axe that I would love to have in my kit, perhaps when the Aussie dollar gets better I will buy one. It sounded exceptional and to say that might seem strange but I know it was exceptional, sharp and all, but it did not appear to cut. I am but a simple man, not really interested in the the long drawn out explanations of theory, but I can tell you, I know when an axe cuts, what feels and sounds right and together with that, can put it all into practice. I have som terrific, simple aids I use to get the basics happening with an axe, I am happy to share them too, just let me know if you might like me to share with you and I will do my best. Here's to your next sharp axe. Cheers, ICS
Click to expand...

I don't quite follow all that you're saying here due to the phrasing of it. Out of curiosity do you happen to remember what model axe/hatchet you had seen the clip of? I'm guessing perhaps the Rinaldi Milano? If so, I recall that the target was a green birch downed by heavy snow and the wet wood was frozen solid while also being free-hanging which absorbed a lot of the force from the blows. Most of the axe-related videos I took last year were during the winter, which was a particularly brutal one. We literally didn't have a single day of thaw the whole season, which resulted in snow drifts up to my armpits by the time all was said and done, and all of the downed wood that needed cutting was like chopping tree-shaped ice blocks. Here's hoping this coming one's a bit gentler. :p

By all means, please feel free to lay out whatever pointers you may have--even if I'm already familiar with them they might be presented in a new way that can aid in communicating the concept to others. In a best case scenario I learn something totally new, in a worst case scenario I get to hear a conflicting viewpoint that helps me round out my perspective of how others view the tool. It's a good thing either way. :)
 
Sharpening: what you do after using your axe in the woods all day.

Reprofiling: what you do after loaning your axe to someone else for 15 minutes.
 
trailtime said:
Sharpening: what you do after using your axe in the woods all day.

Reprofiling: what you do after loaning your axe to someone else for 15 minutes.
Click to expand...

I like that one! The primary reason I don't lend out prize axes, chisels, knives, saws etc. to anyone. Someone that appreciates a good tool and knows how to use and maintain it will already have one of their own and will never ask to borrow your's.
 
300Six said:
I like that one! The primary reason I don't lend out prize axes, chisels, knives, saws etc. to anyone. Someone that appreciates a good tool and knows how to use and maintain it will already have one of their own and will never ask to borrow your's.
Click to expand...

I used to tell people that I'd sooner loan them my toothbrush than my finish hammer.
 
Great to see guys on the same wavelength. It's fantastic to get different points of view it's even better if you have spent 50 or more years in the bush putting the theory into practice. According to trailtimes post, I'd say I've spent more time re profiling axes in the last ten years than sharpening them and of course none of them were mine. Cheers ICS
 
Square_peg said:
I used to tell people that I'd sooner loan them my toothbrush than my finish hammer.
Click to expand...

Now there is one tool I don't mind lending out at all ; re-hafting is cheap and easy on these too. Back when I was in the house renovation business someone would say 'bring out the finishing hammer'. When asked where that term (for the 10 lb sledge hammer) came from the response invariably was; "when something gets hit with this it's finished".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top