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firkin

firkin

Joined
Jan 26, 2002
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I don't own an electric handrill...yet.

I've borrowed one and I am trying to drill a 1/8" hole through 1/4" 5160 (unhardened). Colbalt bit.

The beast I've borrowed is even wimpier than I expected. It's 1/3 HP and draws 3 amps. Reversable. Seems like maybe it is more of an electric screwdriver. Very little cutting is occurring, as I get dust, not shavings, and things heat up very fast. I am using oil.

So two questions--

1) minimum specs on a tool that could manage such a task on an occasional basis.

2) Does the above mentioned tool suffer from a lack of speed, power, maybe both?

I realize that a big drill press would be nice, but at this time, a single decent eletric hand drill is about all I can manage, $ and space wise.

Thanks for any wisdom on this.
 
Hi,

While a three amp drill is on the low side for power in a 3/8 in. drill, it should be up to the task at hand.

Since you say you are getting dust, I'll assume the drill is not bogging down under pressure. Three things come to mind:

1. dull bit.
2. drill is in reverse. (everybody has done it or at least I have)
3. the steel is actually hardened.

A 3/8 in. drill in the 3-5 amp. range will handle most household chores.
Good Luck.

Regards,
Greg
 
Firkin you may have work hardened the area you're trying to drill.
Cobalt drills are for very hard to cut steels and have a thicker web for strength and not what I would recommend for cutting 5160.
I used to thin the web on cobalt drills to make them cut freer, but that takes some degree of skill and training.
A standard high speed drill properly sharpened would be best for your purpose.
Sometimes even a new drill will not be properly sharpened.
Since the 5160 may already be work hardened there may be only one or two options left for you. The first option would be to go to a carbide tipped or solid carbide drill.
The 2nd option is to anneal the 5160 and start over. You shouldn't need any cutting oil for a single hole or even multiple ones if you don't overheat the drill or workpiece.

What are you trying to do?
 
Thanks, Yvsa and Ripper.

I suspect that by now, I've work-hardened the area...I'm about halfway through. I tried the oil after not much was happening and the metal was getting pretty warm. If it was nearly too hot to touch I stopped and let it cool.

Project is a 1/4 inch buttplate on 3 lb khuk.
Art stretched out the tang, which had broken just inside the old buttcap, epoxied the lot up, and put on a nut. He broke the epoxy free from the buttcap deliberately. But it's gotten too loose and moves a lot in normal use.

"I purposely broke the buttcap loose after the epoxy started to set up. This way, as you noted, a blow from the side will rotate it rather than harm the tang."

So, my plan is to drill through the buttcap and a little into the handle, and epoxy a thin brass pin in. Since I broke a couple 3/32 bits, I went to 1/8". Thicker than I want, so I may file down or knotch the part that goes in past the buttcap. Hopefully the soft brass will give before the tang in case of any weird impact, and the buttcap will stay put.

Sure confused me, the same 1/8" bit and drill went right through a villager tang that I pinned, cutting nice long ribbons. Never got any thing other than dust from the buttcap with the same set-up, although I couldn't push down as hard at the beginning (no vise). Now I lash the wrapped knife to a fence-post after sticking the point in a chunk of wood. It doesn't wobble, and I can brace the drill against the post. Looks like time to buy a carbide bit.

The switch on the drill doesn't have any "click" to it, so yes I did run the d*mn thing in reverse for a short time. It seems like just putting the thing down will flip the switch over. Probably that helped the work-hardening.
 
Firkin I have a suggestion. Instead of trying to drill a hole for a pin I would take the corner of a good file and cut a fairly deep triangular groove in and between the buttcap and the handle joint.
Then mix up some putty epoxy and smooth it in the joint.
This should effectively bond the buttcap and handle together so that nothing could cause the buttcap to fail or the tang to break because of maybe being too small.

I cut the same groove on all of my user khuks to eliminate the burr the buttcap almost always has only shallower.
I think it looks nice and it also eliminates any further problems that may result due to anymore handle shrinkage.
 
Originally posted by firkin

The switch on the drill doesn't have any "click" to it, so yes I did run the d*mn thing in reverse for a short time. It seems like just putting the thing down will flip the switch over. Probably that helped the work-hardening.
Click to expand...

Yup and dulled the heck out of the bit too.:) You'll have to sharpen the bit or buy a new one. Sharpening a drill bit, while a 20 second task for this ex-machinist, can be a daunting task for the uninitiated. Go get a new one.

Have fun!

Steve
 
Thanks for more advice Yvsa and ferguson.

I have put the V-groove in a couple of other khuks as you suggest Yvsa, I think I saw a post by Walosi that suggested this on horn handles. I think it is a good general practice. The thick buttcap does seem to damp out vibrations on this big knife, but it's heavy enough that applying epoxy between it and the handle butt didn't work. So I'm gonna be a stubborn cuss and finish this off--I ain't gonna peen a bit of brass in to fill the hole I've got so far unless it does somethin:) And I think the thing's just big and heavy enough that something more is needed. I may file out the groove and epoxy it as well.

And ferguson, no point in trying the sharpen the bit--I broke it. :barf: I'd like to learn how to sharpen such tools (hand saws too!), but haven't run into a teacher yet. Amazing how such simple things are hard to find help to learn. I cringe every time a see a city worker using a dull chain saw and pushing into it--they should grab and cut by themselves. I suspect metal-cutting tools in the right hands are similar.

Thanks for the help. I can hope that the things I learn hard way will be the last that I forget.:)
 
Don't feel too bad about dulling a bit with the reversible drill. I have fouled up twice like that. It usually happens to me because I have used the drill to back out some screws somewhere and have forgotten to trip the switch back to right hand. I don't have any problem with the switch being moved from laying it down. The switch that gets moved on mine is the one to the hammer drill.
And that seems to happen a lot. No big deal but it just makes one heck of a noise when you think you are going to drill a hole.:D
 
I have to apologize for loosening the buttcap; what seemed like a good idea at the time obviously didn't work.
If a sharp new bit and a bit of oil won't penetrate, you may be able to spot anneal as the work hardened section of 5160 is usually only a thin skin. Using a nail in the drill, get the spot good and hot,red hot if possible, then put the khuk butt first in some warm sand to make the hole cool slowly. This often works even on full hard blades.
You can also try to find a drill bit made for drilling hardened steel, but they're expensive and delicate. A small masonry bit might work.
I admire your desire to do this yourself, but a trip to a garage or machine shop with a few dollars in hand can save an awful lot of aggravation when drilling or cutting steel.
Send it up here if you can't drill it there; this repair will be on me, not charged to Uncle Bill.
 
Many thanks for the offer, Art.

The current state of affairs is my fault as much as yours, because my input was used when you made the decisions. Since I don't have a pressing immediate need for the knife, I will keep plugging away at it. Not totally frustrated or quite aggrevated yet, as I am learning some things. But if it was more than one, I'd certainly think twice before working on the second with the metal-working tools and mental tools immediately available to me! I just set things up in the yard and chip away at it between moving the water hose around the garden, so it's not like I've been leaning over the drill with glazed eyes for hours on end or anything. If I reach that point, alternatives will be sought.
 
Firkin, if you live in Montana come to my house and borrow my Milwakii (sic) 1/2" drill. I didn't know drills either and was once in the shape you are. My mistake was buying a high torgue power drill instead of a high speed 3/8" drill with which to do wood work. Live and learn.

I wish ARt and Yvsa lived down the street. Why don't you guys consider leaving OH and the great West Yup coast for Montana?

I have a question for the experts: I have a khuk with a small hairline crack in the wood handle and a small chip out below the (where else?) point of the brass butt plate.
I've glued the chip on. I plan on sanding. If it doesn't hold I may do a fill, or grind off both points. Question: can I dowel the wood through the hairline crack? I probably won't do this unless it starts to move. I would use very small dowel, but still wonder about hitting the tang.

munk
 
munk,

At the risk of appearing foolish enough to answer to "expert", I refer you to a thread that contains Yvsa's photo of a couple of unhandled khuk blades. I suspect you'd have to be dealing with a pretty big chunk of handle before hitting the tang while drilling for the dowel, but judge for yourself.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=207139&highlight=scale

And thanks for the tool-use offer, but it's a bit of a trip from So. Cal. I made a lot of progress with a masonry bit, about 3/64 left to go. I'm beginning to feel that Zeno was right!
 
This whole thread cracks me up...because I did the exact same thing over the weekend.

And I had already read the thread before hand... doh! :rolleyes:

I put in nearly a hundred screws building my new "knife-makin-table" and had to switch between 3 bits for each screw. Drill, counter-sink, screw.

About every 5-10 screws, I would try to put one in while in reverse. Then, of course, I would think of this thread immediately afterwards...:(

...like kickin yourself in the pants every 5 steps you take. :eek:
 
switch between 3 bits for each screw.
Click to expand...

Yikes, That was actually easier than using an old-fashioned manual screw-driver? reduce bit switches by half...Or were you excited by a new drill?:)

Someday, I want to replace my short and cheapo Yankee driver with one of the heavy-duty long ones. Hope to do that before they stop making them.
 
I drill the 100 holes, countersink them and then put the screws in -- 3 drill changes. Then I go back and drill about 30 more holes where they should have been in the first place, countersink and put in the screws. The table has an extra 30 holes but you can always find something to stick in them.
 
LOL :D Bill

I actually employed a "different" method of building the table. I literally started from one corner and built my way around it, wingin' it at every step. It was much more fun than making the "big plans", etc. Plus, since it's going to be a beater anyway, I didn't put much effort into making it pretty - again...the fun way.

Here's what I have on it:

- Horiz. Vice - mounted to bottom right corner
- Belt/disk sander - mounted on top right corner
- upright knife vice - mounted on top, middle
- table top drill press - mounted in top left corner
- 8 x 10 sharpening glass plate (covered in paper) - bottom left
- 2 x 8 mount for oil stones - bottom middle
- hooks for blade waiting to get handles
- scrap bin mounted for extra handle slabs
- just enough room for my favorite maple chair
- and a footrest

All of this on a 30" high table made from just 2x4's and a 24x39 piece of highly compressed fiber board. Cost = $20 (plus tools, of course :D )

I'm hoping to confine everything knife related to the table - that way, it will never be anything more than a hobby.
 
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