Source for 420-V

R

Rob Simonich

Big Bear
Joined
Oct 3, 1998
Messages
2,294
Double post again, sorry

[This message has been edited by Rob Simonich (edited 18 November 1998).]
 
Sheffield's Knifemakers Supply lists 440-v but I think 440-v is no longer offered. So I bet they will have 420-v but I am just guessing. there # is 1-800-874-7007 for orders and 1-900-775-6453 for info might try them good luck.:)
 
Greg,
Rob has already tried Sheffields...no joy!

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-=[Bob]=-
 
I recently read where Crucible is still offering 440-V, at least of a couple months ago, The guy at Sheffields says they arent planning on offering 420-V and I quote "why would I stock something no one is going to buy!" Texas Knifemakers Supply told me today that once their 440-V stock runs out they will no longer stock it due to high cost.....No Joy is right Bob! Why dont a couple of us chip together and start an exotic or hard to get steel supply biz! hmmmm, we offer CPM steels, Talonite etc etc........
 
Rob,
If you're serious, we'd need to really understand the market and what it would take to generate demand sufficient to offset the costs of carrying the inventory by generating sufficient stock turn. Also what the bulk purchase schedules are and what steels and alloys should be included.
The Old Scounger went into business carrying obsolete ammo for reasons analogous to what we're talking about here... the need for a specialty supplier of exotic materials for knifemakers.


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-=[Bob]=-
 
what sizes would you guys whant most.
IM looking into ordering mill runs in the sizes most used.
mill runs for this steel are $5000 or so.
SO I need some imput from you folks.

UPDATE SEE MY POST ON THIS FORUM

ED

[This message has been edited by Edward R Schott (edited 19 November 1998).]
 
Re: 420-V.

How is this heat treated? Is the formula anywhere near similar as for the high end stainless, like ATS-34, BG-42, 440C, etc.?

I am planning on having my ATS-34 heat treating done by D'Holder here in Phoenix (he does all the above). So I'm curious about this.

Marty
 
This is from Crucible's data sheet. It's there recommended heat treat for the best combination of corosion resistance,toughness,and wear resistance.

Austenitize 2100/2150F
hold20/30 min
temper twice at 500/600F
aim hardness 56-58

How will this work on knives?
Dont know but it's a starting point.
I've got some ordered,when I get the treat worked out Ill post it here.
ED
 
There was an article in the April issue of Knives Illistrated about 420-V. Here is what Phil Wilson and Crucible reccomend for furnaces that dont go above 2000 deg.
1) Insert in furnace heated to 1650, let temp stabilize and soak for 15 min.
2)Ramp temp up to 2000 far at 50 deg per minite, austenize for 40 min.
3) Air quench in front of a fan and remove foil as quickly as possible. Straighten blade as it cools to room temp, hardness will be 59/60.
4) Soak in liquid nitrogen for 2 to 4 hours, 20 hours will not do any damage and could refine the grain structure and improve ductility.
5) Double temper at 375 to 450 for 2 hours each cycle. Finished hardness will be 56/58. A third temper after finish grinding to remove stresses is recommended at 350 for an hour.
The article says Crucible has added a bit more carbon and 1% more chrome to make a snappier heat treat in the stuff we are getting now. I didnt quote the article exactly, but that is the meat of it.

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www.simonichknives.com
 
Thanks for the info! Now, I have a couple of follow-up questions (always seems to go that way, doesn't it).

I noticed that the Rockwell numbers were in the mid to high 50's. Is there a reason why we don't shoot for the low 60's?

Does the super high carbon content make the higher hardness unnecessary?

And finally, how brittle is this steel?

Oh, yeah, how easy/hard is it to grind compared to ATS-34, and also a medium to high carbon steel (so I have a range to think about)?

Thanks!

Marty
 
Sorry to rain on you parade, guys, but, the alternate heat treatment proposed will not, IMHO, allow you to realize the potential of that steel. I read that article too, and, from a metallurgical standpoint, that treatment might get you the hardness, but, not the rest of the microstructure that you really want. Altering a heat treatment process to suit the limitations of one's furnace isn't the way to go. The answer is, find the right furnace!! The same applies for BG42there, you need 2050F. There are high temp foils out there that will withstand 2400F.

RJ
 
RJ, you may very well be right, but Crucible, the manufacturer, agree's with the heat treatment profile above. Whether it works or not I dont know......
 
The solution is to buy hi heat coils from Olympic furnace and replace yours to get the best from the steel. There very inexpensive. 20-40 bucks..

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Darrel Ralph / Bladesmith
Web www.infinet.com/~browzer
Take a look!!!!
 
Yes, hi-temp coils and hi-temp foil is the answer. Sorry to be fanatical about this stuff guys. You will notice that the alternate heat treatment doesn't develop the working hardness this steel is capable of, indicating to me that the microstructure is far from completely transformed. Also, I would consider tempering once before deep freezing, as this tends to give a better mnicrostructure.

Good Luck.
RJ
 
Good advice RJ and Darrell, I just ordered a set of regular coils to have on hand for my Paragon, guess I will be ordering some high temp coils and foil. However, the latest from Crucible is that they fine tuned the chemistry for a lower austenizing temperature. You guys hear anything about that? RJ, sometimes it is good to be fanatical, but the last time I was too fanatical the ATF was surrounding my house!
smile.gif


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www.simonichknives.com
 
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