Source for heat treated steel

J

JohnSmithy

Basic Member
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Aug 13, 2023
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Hello, does anyone have any steel that is already heat treated suitably for cutlery that once can just slowly, carefully grind barehanded, with belt grinder, so one does not have to bother with the whole heat treatment process?

I have modified some knives with cutoff wheel and belt grinders, so it is not that hard. I looked at McMaster and could not find any stainless or carbon steels in the from 50-60 rockwell already.

Okay, thank you.
 
I would suggest Starrett Redstripe HSS power hacksaw blades. You can at times find them for really good deals on ebay. Lots of different sizes and a few different thicknesses.

I was told the steel is probably M2. All the ones I checked hardness on were in the 64-65 Rc range. They make excellent slicing knives.

You can use a glass and tile spade but to drill holes in the metal.
 
You can use a heat treating service like Peters'.
 
Only place i know of is in Australia. See if any steel suppliers around you offer heat treating services too
 
This is a perfect example of why we ask people to fill out their profile information when they join Bladeforums. We have no idea where you live, so suggesting a source is futile. I'll guess USA since you listed McMaster-Carr as a possible source.

Many machine shops and well as HT people like JT and peters can harden bars of steel for you. Just buy what you want and have it sent to the HTer directly (after making the arrangements).

If your profile was filled out a local knifemaker may offer to HT some bars for you at no charge.

NOTE:
If you plan on making knives from hardened bars, you should get a mist system. The Kool-Mist clones on the big A are very low price.
A variable speed grinder is also a big plus for working hardened steel. Without these it is nearly impossible not to affect the hardness if the edge.
 
Crag recommended it to me, and sent me a piece. I get better edges from literally every other steel I’ve ever used. One knife ended up as a give away and the gentleman seems very happy with it. The other one I used as a pass around before it came to live here. I received mixed feedback from the guys who used it, though no overwhelmingly negative reviews. However the longer I keep it and then more times I try to work with it and resharpen it the less it impresses me. It’s just more of a pain in the butt to try and get and keep sharp than literally any other steel I’ve ever used. Like I said YMMV but my experience has turned me off of doing it again.
 
David Mary said:
Crag recommended it to me, and sent me a piece. I get better edges from literally every other steel I’ve ever used. One knife ended up as a give away and the gentleman seems very happy with it. The other one I used as a pass around before it came to live here. I received mixed feedback from the guys who used it, though no overwhelmingly negative reviews. However the longer I keep it and then more times I try to work with it and resharpen it the less it impresses me. It’s just more of a pain in the butt to try and get and keep sharp than literally any other steel I’ve ever used. Like I said YMMV but my experience has turned me off of doing it again.
Click to expand...
Most of the phb knives I made are in the kitchen. Made a chef knife for a culinary trained chef and it is his favorite knife and he has used it for 4 years.

Maybe you had a bad hacksaw blade.
 
You may be better off buying premade blanks that are already hardened? Or buying bars and sending directly out for heat treating? Or have stuff water jet cut, prep them (clean up edges, chamfer holes, etc) and send off to heat treat, then work from there. Most places do not sell already hardened bar stock. Or use D2 planer blades?
 
Anyone ever poke around all over a power hacksaw blade with a hardness tester?
 
Yes, like S Seedy Lot said I like using Startett blades. I've worked with a good variety of steels, and have vastly different opinion towards them.
I think the heat treatment Startett does to the HSS is unequalled. They do a great job.

I always recommend them for new makers, or any maker, really. I feel they make a great knife.
Just recently a hunter/trapper requested a small detail knife for cutting around skulls and into bone. Even though I use "higher end" steels such as CPM Cruwear, he insisted I make it with the same steel as his first knife that I made for him, he loved it so much.... Even though it wasn't designed for it, he used it to clean the bear his wife shot. He said he was carving away for over 5 hours and it still stayed sharp. Wow.
Here is that knife, and a few others made from Starrett power hacksaw blades.



This one above cleaned the bear meat. (second pic with the black handle)















This last one is my current edc, it's like a glorified steak knife.

The issue most makers don't use PHB material is that it is crazy hard steel, difficult to drill, and that it doesn't finish up well, leaving the knife kinda Ugly. And that it takes 2-3 times as long to make. Me personally, I find them wonderful, and will continue to make from that material along with the other steels I use.


*edit to add... if the OP lives in the States and wants a hardened blank. I could send ya one I have a bunch of blanks of "Real Steel" (NitroV/8670) treated by Bos that I could donate ya..... Just private message me here (I don't do email)
 
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fitzo said:
Anyone ever poke around all over a power hacksaw blade with a hardness tester?
Click to expand...
Since this conversation about phbs got me fired up I found my last piece of saw blade and started a knife. Surface ground and tested hardness across the 7 inch blade.

11 tests.

2- 65.5 Rc
3- 66 Rc
5- 66.5 Rc
1- 67 Rc

I did use test block to make sure readings were good.

share image
 
Seedy Lot said:
Since this conversation about phbs got me fired up I found my last piece of saw blade and started a knife. Surface ground and tested hardness across the 7 inch blade.

11 tests.

2- 65.5 Rc
3- 66 Rc
5- 66.5 Rc
1- 67 Rc

I did use test block to make sure readings were good.

share image
Click to expand...
That explains why my feet are sore from standing so long.... haha!

*looking forward to what you come up with.
 
The discussion made me want to grab that knife again and see what I could do with it. I have picked it up and tried to sharpen it to my satisfaction a number of times since it came back from the pass around. AEB-L, 15N20, 8670, S30V, S35VN, MagnaCut, all of these give me less trouble. I spent another hour or so with it today, continuing where I left off sharpening if from last time, which back then was a contuation from the time before.

It is sharp. That much is not in dispute. It can cut paper. When I first finished it before sending it for the pass around, I made sure to get it as sharp as possible, but I always slack belt sharpen on the grinder when finishing a knife. I have been relying on hand sharpening since it came back, using diamond plates. I have never been able to get it back, over at least three session of at least an hour each, to the same kind of fine edge that I can get using the same methods with those other steels.

Ease of sharpening is extremely important to me, so maybe I just don't like super high hardness steel.
 
David Mary David Mary maybe the edge is thicker than you realize after the pass around and it needs to be thinned.

The phb definitely is slow to grind, which when I was learning to freehand it was perfect, but today I was getting impatient. Granted it was a 0.100 inch piece and grinding a 7 inch chef knife was much longer standing in front of the grinder than I like to do.

It has been a few years but I remember thinking that the phb steel was nice to sharpen and responded well to cheaper wet stones. Yes a little harder to sharpen than AEB-L but easier than M4. I could be wrong, I will get the knife finished in the next couple days so I can get a fresh perspective.
 
Seedy Lot said:
Since this conversation about phbs got me fired up I found my last piece of saw blade and started a knife. Surface ground and tested hardness across the 7 inch blade.

11 tests.

2- 65.5 Rc
3- 66 Rc
5- 66.5 Rc
1- 67 Rc

I did use test block to make sure readings were good.

share image
Click to expand...
Thank you for doing that! I asked because the comment about a hard-to-regain edge made me wonder if the blades were HTd evenly or whether it might be some idiosyncratic induction or other electrical thing that wouldn't heat it evenly. Differential heating, if you will, or, for that matter, tempering.

On another note, I buy M42 and M7 pre-hardened stock from AMZ to make small carving chisels and knives. Using my diamond hone from engraving I grind them to a zero edge, mirror polished. One would think they'd chip right out but they're tough and, as expected, hold an edge forever.

OP, you're going to need a healthy measure of patience. ;)
 
Primary edge is about 20° per side, and geometry is .012 behind the edge. Any other steel I would have had popping off hairs and cutting snag free by now with hand sharpening. Just can't seem to do it with this knife.
 
Crag the Brewer Crag the Brewer
S Seedy Lot

When I said before that I had been sharpening with a diamond plate, what I really meant was a well used worksharp guided field sharpener. This tool has served me well on many many knives, but it was becoming a chore even for sharpening AEB-L, so late last year I ordered a Sharpal dual sided 400/1000 grit diamond stone. I used it on about a dozen finished knives that were already either paper slicing off the grinder, or close to it. It made quick work of everything.

So of course I had to give the M2 power hacksaw blade knife a fair shot on it as well.

Long story short, I am pretty sure my issue before was a combination of well worn abrasives, and a lack of patience due to being spoiled by the ease and speed of slack belt sharpening on my grinder. The phb knife is now very sharp.

I was easily able to cut up this piece of cardboard from the flat my cat food came on (the one side brown, one side white with green print one in little pieces), followed by effortless slicing of printer paper and newsprint.

IMG_0878.jpeg
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So I retract my statement about "hating" the steel. I was just impatient.
 
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