Sources for ferrocerium?

magfireusa, Welcome to the forum, can you tell us what seperates the good from the not so good Firesteels?
 
In response to the question "what separates a good from a not good firesteel" I think that the answer is something like what's a good knife vs. a bad knife - the answer being a good knife is the one you have right now, and a bad knife is the one you forgot back home.

The basic principle of the firesteel is a durable, reliable source of hot sparks. The reason you carry a firesteel is that unlike matches and lighters you don't fear water with one, and you don't worry about keeping it supplied with fuel (like a zippo), or having it fail in extreme cold (like a Bic lighter).

In that context, a fire-steel - any fire steel, even a competing product to my Magfire line, is a Good Idea.

However, like any product, once you have the basic idea, there's issues that arise.

It has been mentioned here that the Magnesium blocks with embedded striker have had occasion to have the striker fall out. This has been my experience only with the Coglans, not the Doan models, by the way. Doan is a good product. So, you want a striker that stays put.

Then there's the matter of form. The block of metal approach is a bit of a "brute-force" method for the fire with metal game, and if you are trying to save space and weight, it's not the best way to go.

So we end up with the BSA "Hot Spark" the Swedish Firesteel and other rod with a handle styles.

First of all, we can look to the smaller, thinner rods and discount them immediately, as any amount of practice with them - and like all survival tools, the time to use them isn't when you have a broken ankle 175 yards from the road and it's getting dark and starting to rain - weakens them to the point that when you actually need to use them, they break. This is my gripe with the BSA hot spark and similar products with a 3/16" rod.

So once you're into 1/4" and greater diameter rods, you're into the world of tool, not toy.

In this class, you're looking at more than just the ability to spark, you need to consider other factors:

- Corrosion resistance
This one is easy. With a few exeptions (like for Gold) all metals will oxidize to some extend. Some metals, like Aluminium, will oxidize to form a hard, protective coating (Aluminum Oxide) that actually protects the metal. Others - like mild steel - actually suffer structural change and damage from the oxidation process - rust. Magnesium is a water-reactive metal, and does oxidize, however, like aluminum, the oxidation makes a coating on the metal. That's good and bad - you scrape the fire steel, you now oxidize the metal where you scraped - and next time you have to scrape off the oxidation to get a spark. Do that enough and you're scraping away good fire starting material with out startign a fire. So you want an alloy of Magnesium and other metals that gives you the fire you want without the oxidation you don't.

- Self-Ignition Risk
While a small risk with the rod-style sparking system, there is a chance that you could spark things just so and light your sparking rod. A 5,000 degree blob of burning metal is impressive to look at, but tends to be a problem when all you wanted was to warm your feet.

- Self-Ignition Damage
On a smaller scale, pitting and scoring from self-ignition of the rod is a matter of metal design. You don't want a rod that allows sparks to burn into the rod more than a tiny bit, otherwise you end up with a rod that is as strong as swiss cheese.

- Metal Strength at Reduced Diameter
This one is important. If you buy a fire steel, you better practice with it. And as you get to 50% reduction in diameter, your fire steel had better hold up and not snap in half. This is my complaint with the 3/16" rods. By the time you get good at it, it's ready to break. The alloy must be very, very strong. Pure magnesium is strong, but can be worn down quickly, because it's soft.

- Wear Pattern Effects
The entire rod - in and out - needs to be a striking material. You don't want a rod that's only coated with a striking surface. You don't want a rod that won't strike when it's half worn out.


That said, of course, my product line meets all of the requirements, and then some.

Here's a few other things you might like to know about making fire in the field:

- No toxic mess when you use a firesteel and natural tinder.

Did you notice that Trioxane tabs are flooding the surplus market? That's because the residue from a Trioxane tab is horribly toxic.
These fuel tabs contain metaformaldehyde which is toxic and releases formaldehyde gas (also toxic) when it decomposes. This fuel is toxic despite the many websites that claim theirs are "nontoxic". You shouldn't eat without first washing your hands after handling this fuel and the fumes aren't much fun either. Esbit and similar fuels - Hexamethylenetetramine - release formaldehyde, ammonia, carbon oxides, hydrogen cyanide and nitrogen oxides when burned.

Finally, when picking a fire steel, go with what people who have used them tell you. I can't knock a product made by another company if it works. All I'm saying is that for me, my products work, I like them, I used them before I sold them, and I'll only sell something that I think is the best of the best.

I hope that gave you some better information, and if you have any more questions, please let me know.

Marty

sales@magfireusa.com
www.magfireusa.com
Sole US Importer and Seller of the Magfire Fire Starter.
 
Hey guys...

Thanks for the great explanations Marty...

I've spoken with the owner of the company that makes the Doan Tool several times,, and actually the company makes the mag blocks for Coglans, Coleman and everything else you see that looks like the Doan tool.

They also make the Doan tool for the US military, as well as several different military forces around the globe...The Doan tool can be found in every pre-packaged survival kit on any aircraft the US military has...

ttyle

Eric....
 
I agree, the Doan tool is not bad. I just find it to be a bit larger than I'd like for regular carry. As far as the fact that Doan private labels things for others, this is a common practice. It's like breakfast cereal - the cornflakes you buy are made in the same 2 or 3 factories, regardless of the name on the box. That said, the same factory prodution line can make changes to the process that affect the output. All I know is that the block of Magnesium stamped "DOAN" has never had the striking rod fall out. The one that came out of the Coughlan's packaging did break.

But anyway, I sell Magfires . Smaller, just as effective, and easier to package in a knife sheath, don't you think?

I also spoke to an active duty guy - air force - and he's got some kind of flare thing that they use for fire making. It looks like a small flare (he says, I never saw it). I don't know anything about that.

Anyway, I just sell my Magfires and that makes me happy.
 
Hey Marty...

I agree with you for sure..
I'm absolutely sold on my Magfire steel and on Magfire products in general..

I've had the handles come off on my Firesteel a couple of times..
The Magfire steel seems to be holding up much better and in fact I believe it is deeper into the handle and the Firesteel brand..

Another problem that hasn't been mentioned with the mag bar or Doan type fire tool is that the shaving can take time to make, can be difficult to make, especially if the tool has been deeply gouged it is Very difficult to get a nice shaving from it,, and the worst part is that if it's windy,, the shaving can Very easily be blown away, or your shaving by can be disrupted or tipped over and all the work is lost in an instant.. Not to mention the burst of flame and choking smoke you get from a magnesium bar is sometimes over before it has really begun. You Really need a good pile of shavings to get a very hot flame started. You have to have your wits with you,, and have everything set up perfectly.. You only get one or two chances to ignite,, then you start shaving all over..If it’s windy… Forget it!

With the Magfire rod,, you simply avoid all of this shaving, and draw a Very hot spark directly onto simply ordinary tinder.. There’s no need to shave anything, because it comes directly off of the Magfire rod.

Superior design in my opinion,, Saves Time and effort...You can quickly make a fire with even mediocre tinder.

The problem with the Blast match is simple....

You Have to make contact with your tinder bundle to have ignition. This means, you had better be setting up your fire on a hard, dry surface,, so you can push the blast Match down into it...

This method also won't allow you to start a fire using a flammable liquid, or to start a stove ect. In Scouts I routinely started our stoves with a Firesteel, while others looked for a match or lighter.. You can direct the throw of the spark using a Magfire rod, the Blast Match you can't, and are Very limited in it’s use...

Also God be with you,, if the striker on the blast match should ever snap as it did to one of my scouts.. The tool is now almost useless..

Even though the Blast Match broke on the scout I wouldn't allow him to borrow or use another method to start his fire.. He asked "What am I going to do now?". My responce was "You figure it out! "

After several frustrating minutes he decided to liberate the steel from the Blast Match holder, and smashed the rod out with a rock. He then used his pocket knife to throw a spark onto his tinder bundle..
It was difficult for him,, but he got it done...

My advice is if you buy or have a Blast Match is to liberate it from it’s holder,, file a flat on one end,, and insert it into either a wooden handle or a small piece of Whitetail antler. Other than that it’s a useless piece of kit.

A lot of these tools I find are gimmicks,, Great to play around with and experiment,, but when you Really need them, they tend to fail.

With a Magfire rod,, there’s no bells whistles or mechanical devices,, Very little short of the handle falling off that can go wrong with them,, even under the worst of conditions.. A high quality Steel such as the Magfire with a well designed handle,, and a simple striker is your Best option... Other than decent tinder.... What else do you need ?

In my opinion Magfire rods are the Best in the business...

ttyle

Eric....
 
LOL this is what I did when my Blast match broke. This was made by melting down soda cans in a biscuit tin forge and a cat food crucible :)

Casting-project.jpg


You can actually pull the rod from a Blastmatch quite easily, no need to smash.
 
Temper, I see you've got a Permanent Match like those sold by Budk in that picture. I have several scattered throughout my kits. I believe the striking rod along the side is made of ferrocium. So that too could be a backup sparker, although I doubt a very efficient one, even if the lighter fluid had all evaporated out of the unit.

However, from the reports I've read here and my own experience, the O-ring seal prevents evaporation quite well. One of these $2 wonders from Budk sat on my bookshelf and lit when I tried it after more than a year. And yes, it reeked and stank of lighter fluid when I unscrewed the match rod, just like it did when I first filled it. ;)

The downside I see of the Permanent Match is the round shape, small size, and shallow knurling of the unscrewing knob would make it tough to undo it with cold hands. (think of the Jack London story "To Build A Fire") If it were to have a flat head on it (like a thumbscrew) it would be easier to undo when your fine motor skills are trashed.
 
Yeah, they are pretty cool, I picked up 5 from Yahoo auctions for the equivalent of about $8 :)

Good thinking on the cap, how about hacksawing a slot and JB weld'ing a thin bar across, about the width of the case. It would be cool to make one of these for yourself and use a BSA Hotspark sized rod instead. A few fluid oz would make a lot of fires.
 
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