Southard not flipping

S

schwome

Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
119
So I've had my Southard for about 7 months and it has recently started giving me trouble. It almost feels like its binding on something. The action has become gritty and course, so I took the whole thing apart, cleaned it, oiled it, loctite all the screws, and reassembled. The first 20 times I flipped it, it was amazing!!! Smoother than when I first got it, but now it seems to be binding again... when I took it apart I noticed the washers were kinda bowl shaped, like the ball bearings bent the washers? Has anyone else noticed this? Could this be the problem?
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Also when I took it apart, it was pretty clean. No grit or debris in the knife...
 
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Don't know if you know but disassembling it voids the warranty.
 
jsp said:
Don't know if you know but disassembling it voids the warranty.
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Not exactly helpful. I haven't noticed this, as I recently sold my Southard, but it definitely makes sense that the washer/bearing interface could be the problem.
 
This happened to me and I think it was because I'd used some loctite and it leaked onto one of the surfaces. I also noticed that the detente ball had become shiny and flattened. Anyway, I cleaned it off and reassembled a couple of times and it went away. The cleaning may have rotated the detente ball into a better position or, as I said, there was some loctite deposited somewhere.

As for the idea that disassembling the knife voids the warranty I'm sorry, but I don't know anyone who doesn't disassemble their knife from time to time to clean it, etc.. Sheesh, can you imagine?? I mean, consider that these knives are used by military, police, and rescue professionals who have to do equipment checks and so forth. You think Emerson voids their warranty just for disassembly when they *sell replacement parts*. I've never heard anything so ridiculous.
 
Let be put it this way, if disassembly of the knife voids the warranty then the Southard is the last Spyderco I buy, and I'm going to cancel my order for a Karahawk.
 
Thanks for the help guys & yes, I am well aware of Spyderco's warranty and would have no problem paying for a new set of washers if I had to. I tried rinsing it out, air compressor, and oil.... when nothing else works, take it apart :) I am at work now and have been playing with it off and on. Its weird, it seems to come and go. The more I flick it, the worse it gets. Let it sit for 30min and then it works again...??? Something to do with friction?
 
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I took apart my southard for the same reason and because I was going to make some handles for it while it was apart...and yes I notice the same exact thing! Bowled/concaved washers.

When the washers concave in, the ball bearing are making less contact with the washers and the washers make more contact with the plastic holding the bearings. Needless to say this causes more friction and less action

I did try many things

1.) Greased and Oiled all moving parts....didn't really make a huge difference.

2.) Removed the washers. Got worse.

3.) Tried to flatten the washers...they didn't want to flatten.

4.) I reversed the washers so that they were convex to the ball bearings. Much much better.

Next I'm going to call Spyderco and ask them for new washers (And I am really hoping that they don't give me crap about it because I work with knives and guns all day long taking them apart and putting them back together...not to meantion the hundreds of dollars I spend with them)

Another option is to buy new bronze washers and make them fit with a little sanding.
 
ShepardCC said:
I took apart my southard for the same reason and because I was going to make some handles for it while it was apart...and yes I notice the same exact thing! Bowled/concaved washers.

When the washers concave in, the ball bearing are making less contact with the washers and the washers make more contact with the plastic holding the bearings. Needless to say this causes more friction and less action

I did try many things

1.) Greased and Oiled all moving parts....didn't really make a huge difference.

2.) Removed the washers. Got worse.

3.) Tried to flatten the washers...they didn't want to flatten.

4.) I reversed the washers so that they were convex to the ball bearings. Much much better.

Next I'm going to call Spyderco and ask them for new washers (And I am really hoping that they don't give me crap about it because I work with knives and guns all day long taking them apart and putting them back together...not to meantion the hundreds of dollars I spend with them)

Another option is to buy new bronze washers and make them fit with a little sanding.
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Thanks, i will try flipping the washers when I get home. I love the knife, but I don't see why they didn't use phosphorus bronze washers from the start.
 
schwome said:
Thanks, i will try flipping the washers when I get home. I love the knife, but I don't see why they didn't use phosphorus bronze washers from the start.
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Ball bearing, when done properly not only work better, are smoother, last longer, but also can take more use/abuse. For example, why they use ball bearing in wheel bearing in vehicles as opposed to washers ;)
 
ShepardCC said:
Ball bearing, when done properly not only work better, are smoother, last longer, but also can take more use/abuse. For example, why they use ball bearing in wheel bearing in vehicles as opposed to washers ;)
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Yah, I meant phosphorus bronze washers with the ball bearings, instead of the stainless ones
 
I do not know the problem exactly, but i think it has something to do with the bearings or ball detent. I do not have a Southard, but two of my liner locking knives have this problem- Buck Vantage and Spyderco Military. Applying lubricant at the pivot area did not solve the problem until I applied lubricant to the ball detent of the Military. For the Buck Vantage, i just left it alone for a few hours and it became smooth again, until i started flipping it a few times in a row.
 
I'm not entirely sure of the physics behind the ball bearing pivot here, but I believe the concave in the washers is part of the design. Both southards I've disassembled looked the same. I would also suggest adding a droplet of lubricant to the detent ball and rolling the ball around to coat if possible (careful not to drip on the lock interface).
My zt0560 became a little rough to flip yesterday and this cleared it right up.
Good luck!
 
Yeah, I agree with the fellow who suggested the ball detente. As I said mine looked shiny like it was dragging rather than rolling. I put a small dot of lube on it after cleaning. Since that was only one of the things I did I can't say definitively that's what cured it. Also, if you reverse the washers they'll just cup the other direction after awhile. I don't think that's a problem. In fact, I don't think the problem has to do with the washers at all. I'm pretty sure it's the detente that's dragging. You should lube it and work it for awhile before it wears a flat spot.
 
My first guess would be the detent dragging as well. Lift up the liner and move the blade, see if it's still grinding. I had the same problem with my Kershaw Junkyard Dog. The detent ball was much too soft and has worn down to almost nothing. At a certain point it was no longer smooth. I took the detent ball out and I'm going to replace it with a full ceramic bearing.

Phosphor bronze washers are actually pretty soft. If those were used with the ball bearings they would deform for sure. If you're going to replace the washers get the correct ones from Spyderco.
 
Thanks for all the help everyone. I just used a Q tip and put some oil right on the ball detent. Much smoother now. My index finger is killing me though from flicking it all last night and this morning lol
Will prob carry the techno or leafstorm tonight to give my finger a rest
 
I spent a lot of time with 2 disassembled Southards. The washers are bowl shaped by design.

Check this: make sure the bearing cages spin freely within the titanium cavity. I had one bearing cage that was slightly too big and did not spin freely. I sanded it down a little and it fixed the problem.

Good luck!
 
This would be a problem of a different kind, but I've found it's very easy to put a little pressure on the lockbar when opening the knife, which obviously creates some additional drag on the detent and blade as they open.
 
I would also suggest adding a droplet of lubricant to the detent ball and rolling the ball around to coat if possible

As I said mine looked shiny like it was dragging rather than rolling

Please correct me if I'm wrong here (always learning) but the detent ball is pressed in. It doesn't roll in any way. It gets the shiny spot because the same point is grinding away against the hardened blade right? Oil doesn't free it up, it briefly reduces friction between the ball and blade.

This is why Spyderco doesn't like most people taking apart their products, they don't know how they work. As for bronze washers... the steel ones protect the softer titanium from the hardened balls. Without washers the bearings would dig a groove into the handle. If you use soft bronze the bearings again will dig a groove.
 
Honed_Edge said:
I would also suggest adding a droplet of lubricant to the detent ball and rolling the ball around to coat if possible

As I said mine looked shiny like it was dragging rather than rolling

Please correct me if I'm wrong here (always learning) but the detent ball is pressed in. It doesn't roll in any way. It gets the shiny spot because the same point is grinding away against the hardened blade right? Oil doesn't free it up, it briefly reduces friction between the ball and blade.

This is why Spyderco doesn't like most people taking apart their products, they don't know how they work. As for bronze washers... the steel ones protect the softer titanium from the hardened balls. Without washers the bearings would dig a groove into the handle. If you use soft bronze the bearings again will dig a groove.
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Just took mine apart to check. The detent ball doesn't roll, although its so smooth that it feels like its rolling if you slide a finger over it. I see nothing wrong with taking things apart if you don't know how they work, as long as you're mechanically inclined and careful. Disassembly is really a great method for directly learning how a machine works.
Of course knowledge from others such as yourself is helpful as well. :-)
 
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