Southard or Sebenza?

[DRK]

The only reason the Southard is cheaper than the Sebenza is because its made overseas.

Sal has stated that it would be a $400 knife if it was made here.

List on the Southard is $400 its just they discount them so deeply, you never see that with CRK they always sell full list. Just a different way of marketing a product but still something to consider. That aside they are quite different and both great knives. I think if you are willing to spend the money for the Sebenza It is a nice knife to own and you won't believe the quality. I have both sizes and if you are thinking that you want something that is similar in size to the Southard then I would recommend getting a large. The small Seb is quite small and because there is no choil, you may feel (at least I often do) that you kind of run out of handle. I think this is an important point to give some thought to, it is a very expensive knife (for me anyway) so you want to be sure that you get the right size on the first go round.

 

[Sparki]

A lot of people compare the spyderco sage 2 to a small sebenza. I have one and I think it's fantastic if you're looking for something on the smaller side.

 

[HwangJino]

I like both sizes of sebenza. Probably why CRK sells so many

I actually prefer the small despite my semi large hands. Small carries so much easier in slacks.

 

[Scurvy092]

List on the Southard is $400 its just they discount them so deeply, you never see that with CRK they always sell full list. Just a different way of marketing a product but still something to consider.

Everyone knows you don't pay msrp on a spyderco. The fact still remains that if the Southard was made here it would cost buyers $400...

 

[DRK]

Everyone knows you don't pay msrp on a spyderco. The fact still remains that if the Southard was made here it would cost buyers $400...

I understand that, it is just a different way to market. Spyderco could price the Southard at $700 and try to sell it for $400 but I don't think people would pay it.

Back to the OP they are both great knives but quite different, any chance you can handle both?

 

[anthony cheeseboro]

I understand that, it is just a different way to market. Spyderco could price the Southard at $700 and try to sell it for $400 but I don't think people would pay it.

Back to the OP they are both great knives but quite different, any chance you can handle both?

That is not the argument. There is a reason that Spyderco sends American steel to Taichung in Taiwan to assemble their best knives, and that reason is saving labor costs. I have no doubt that a Southard mad in the USA would be $400, and marketing would have nothing to do with it.

 

[TheModernNeanderthal]

That is not the argument. There is a reason that Spyderco sends American steel to Taichung in Taiwan to assemble their best knives, and that reason is saving labor costs. I have no doubt that a Southard mad in the USA would be $400, and marketing would have nothing to do with it.

Not the only reason. Making it in the US wouldn't make it that much more expensive, its more that the Taichung plant has more capabilities and can product these complex designs with more ease and higher output. Think about the para 2 and how they trickle out of Golden. Imagine a knife like the southard made there.

Back to the topic,

I don't see them as very similar. The Sebenza is all about refinement of design. It's everything a knife needs to be done to the highest degree of precision and nothing more.

The Southard is all things to the max. The best steel available, bearings, flipper and hole, titanium and g-10, handle to blade ratio. If you put a bunch of ideas on paper, it would come out like the southard IMO.

In have yet to handle a 25 but I've had several Sebenza's and an umnumzaan and they feel much more hand made vs the Southard feeling very factory made. Not that that's a bad thing, just different.

 

[DRK]

Not the only reason. Making it in the US wouldn't make it that much more expensive, its more that the Taichung plant has more capabilities and can product these complex designs with more ease and higher output. Think about the para 2 and how they trickle out of Golden. Imagine a knife like the southard made there.

Back to the topic,

I don't see them as very similar. The Sebenza is all about refinement of design. It's everything a knife needs to be done to the highest degree of precision and nothing more.

The Southard is all things to the max. The best steel available, bearings, flipper and hole, titanium and g-10, handle to blade ratio. If you put a bunch of ideas on paper, it would come out like the southard IMO.

In have yet to handle a 25 but I've had several Sebenza's and an umnumzaan and they feel much more hand made vs the Southard feeling very factory made. Not that that's a bad thing, just different.

I don't really want to argue about what the Southard is priced at.

I think the points you made are great points. I love all my Taichung knives and I wouldn't trade them or sell them and they are good value but the Sebenza still has more of a custom feel to it. It's an incredibly simple, high quality, timeless design design and a great piece of engineering.

 

[Andre21]

get the seb. soooo nice. its one of those knives I believe everyone should have at some point. had mine 4yrs and im still lovin it

Once you own a Sebenza you will understand. I purchased my first small classic about 6 years ago. It was the smoothest knife I have ever owned. I own 7 CRK's to date.

Also you can at anytime send them in for a "Spa Treatment" (for free) and they come back LNIB.

If you purchase a CRK and are not happy with for whatever reason; 99% of the time you can sell it for what you paid for it. So really there is nothing to lose.

Good luck with your decision

Merry Christmas

 

[shqxk]

As much as I lovd the 204p steel, I would rather have made in USA stuff than a Taiwan any time. I know Spyderco Taichung factory make some of the best quality production knife on this planet but I still dont like Taiwan stamped on myblade.

 

[JNewell]

Not the only reason. Making it in the US wouldn't make it that much more expensive, its more that the Taichung plant has more capabilities and can product these complex designs with more ease and higher output. Think about the para 2 and how they trickle out of Golden. Imagine a knife like the southard made there.

Back to the topic,

I don't see them as very similar. The Sebenza is all about refinement of design. It's everything a knife needs to be done to the highest degree of precision and nothing more.

The Southard is all things to the max. The best steel available, bearings, flipper and hole, titanium and g-10, handle to blade ratio. If you put a bunch of ideas on paper, it would come out like the southard IMO.

In have yet to handle a 25 but I've had several Sebenza's and an umnumzaan and they feel much more hand made vs the Southard feeling very factory made. Not that that's a bad thing, just different.

That pretty much sums up what I was going to write. The Southard is an excellent knife, but it is not the same as a Sebenza - other than being a knife. Size, weight, steel, workmanship are all different, but it's also half the street price of a Sebenza. The one thing that could be a serious decision point is the flipper: if you're not comfortable with a flipper, the Southard is a poor choice, since the Spyderhole opener is somewhere between too small and vestigial.

The only reason the Southard is cheaper than the Sebenza is because its made overseas.

Sal has stated that it would be a $400 knife if it was made here.

The other thing Sal has said repeatedly is that Spyderco doesn't choose to match the manufacturing tolerances of the Sebenza. Going from the tolerances that Spyderco currently maintains to the tolerances that CRK maintains with the Sebenza would add a lot to the cost of a knife, and that isn't primarily driven by whether it's made in the US or Taiwan.

 

[Surfingringo]

Ugh, sorry, but I'm going to be "that guy" that suggests something you didn't ask about. I too love the pacific salt and recently got a titanium military as my non-work knife. I really love it. Same titanium frame lock as the knives you mentioned. Great knife. I also much prefer s30v steel to cts204p, but I'm probably in the minority with that opinion.

Hopefully you have a way to handle them before purchasing. That always makes everything much easier.

 

[kamonjj]

I don't have a seb but I am happy with my southard. I picked one up lnib for less than 200 on the forum here. If going that route and wanting a flipper the southard would win hands down for me due to the cost differential. It's light weight, fits in my hand nicely. I don't have small hands but they aren't extremely large either. I think for me it would depend upon what you like. I don't like how you aren't supposed to flip open a seb. That to me is a deal breaker.

 

[wvriverats]

I'm going to have to make the drive down to New Graham and fondle a bunch of knives. I wasn't familiar with the Lionsteel knife. It doesn't look like they stock those. The lionspy looks neat, but it is out of stock. Thanks for all of your help!

 

[Surfingringo]

Have fun. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[DRK]

Good luck with your purchase, it is always exciting to be researching a new knife.

 

[AL903TX]

I dont have a southard... but i can tell u that i have had my sebenza 25 for 4 days and it is absolutely amazing. It is built like a tank has a nice hefty feel to it, the nice "clack" it makes during lockup is very satisfying... its like closing a bank vault and once locked in there is zero blade play and feel extremely reliable. The jimping on the back of blade is perfect and grippy. Im still getting used to the thumb stud as my thumb is very sore lol! Deployment of the knife is extremely smooth! And their clip is the best ive seen, it has like two notches integrated into the clip that makes me feel very confident that my knife will stay clipped onto my pocket during carry. This is my first ever CRK and if your a perfectionist like me then you sir will not be disappointed, i am absolutely blown away by this knife!

 

[Jastab]

I vote southard, you could buy 2 of them for one sebenza and the blade steels aren't even close. Yeah you wont have a .0001" tolerance, but does that really matter?

 

[dskobli]

Don't own a southard but I do own a small insingo. Crk fit and Finnish really is second to none! They are so easy to maintain with the minimalistic design. 3 hex screws and that's it! Buttery smooth and locks up like a bank vault. Like I said I don't own a southard but I would not hesitate to reccomend a crk! They really are all that and I own several knives. Some costing more then the sebenza.

 

[JNewell]

I'm going to have to make the drive down to New Graham and fondle a bunch of knives. I wasn't familiar with the Lionsteel knife. It doesn't look like they stock those. The lionspy looks neat, but it is out of stock. Thanks for all of your help!

Kinda like dyin' an' goin' to Heaven And there is absolutely no substitute for actually handling the knives. All of us have different tastes and needs. :thumbup: