Southern Grind

[grownstar]

I don't think it is a matter of being "a blade snob" but rather a matter of perception of value. Personally, I own a wide variety of steels (From inexpensive steels on CRKT, RR, Kershaw - all the way up to S110V on a Spyderco) and agree that 14C28n is a decent user steel when priced right. But where I disagree is that a knife with 14C28n blade steel is worth $250. That steel is far less expensive and this aspect of the knife change my opinion of its value. I would be happy with the knife if it cost less or if it had better steel. But that combo at that price point is a poor value, especially as a mid-priced user - IMHO.

That said, I don't begrudge anyone their choice or opinion that it is a good deal for them. It is just not a good value for my needs/want. Too many other options that fit my opinion of better value that I would prefer to buy.

All of this. Great explanation.

 

[Bigfatts]

I don't think it is a matter of being "a blade snob" but rather a matter of perception of value. Personally, I own a wide variety of steels (From inexpensive steels on CRKT, RR, Kershaw - all the way up to S110V on a Spyderco) and agree that 14C28n is a decent user steel when priced right. But where I disagree is that a knife with 14C28n blade steel is worth $250. That steel is far less expensive and this aspect of the knife change my opinion of its value. I would be happy with the knife if it cost less or if it had better steel. But that combo at that price point is a poor value, especially as a mid-priced user - IMHO.

That said, I don't begrudge anyone their choice or opinion that it is a good deal for them. It is just not a good value for my needs/want. Too many other options that fit my opinion of better value that I would prefer to buy.

Fair enough, I guess everyone has their own price points. For me, the amount of hand fitting that goes into the knife, the Ti liners, the foundation that the knife helps support and everything else make it worth the money. Not to mention it's a knife that just plain works. In the hand, in the pocket, it's great. But I can see how some wouldn't come to the same conclusion.

But whether you like the Bad Monkey or not, keep an eye on SG in the future. My local shop is one of their only official dealers and he is in pretty regular contact with them. He's been talking about some new knives and collaborations that I could see creating a stir around here. I'm not going to let any cats out of the bag because I don't know where things stand officially, but keep an eye on them.

 

[jstrange]

I had one and it was a great knife. Aside from the blade steel (which I didn't mind) all the materials are high-end and expertly assembled. At the original price I think it was great value as it compared well in fit and finish with any knife I have ever owned. I can see where one would take issue with the blade steel at the new price point, but it is as much as I would need (value consideration aside).

I am a Zac Brown fan so maybe that skews my thinking a bit, but I like to see new knife companies do well and I wish them the best of luck. I would love to see the BM come in around a 3.5" blade in S30V or the like with G10 scales.

 

[irishpunk]

Thank you all, for the great feedback. I own a fairly sizeable knife collection, mostly folders, and mostly knives that you all own as well. For instance...Benchmade, Spyderco, Kershaw, Buck, and so on...I can think of only one of my folders that cost more than $200.00 (ZT0301). I've been wanting a Chris Reeve folder for a long time now, it seems as the only thing holding me back is the cost. I still plan on owning one, (Chris Reeve) but at the same time, I would like to add another high quality knife to my collection. So that is what drove me to ask about Southern Grind Knives.

I'm pretty sure I've stated this before, but just to clarify...I collect knives, I do not use them, at all. This may seem odd, or even silly to most, but It's just something that I enjoy doing. Collecting knives that is. So I can say, without a doubt, that all of my knives are 'safe queens'.

In closing, no matter what I intend to do with the knives I collect, one thing stands out...and that would be that by collecting knives, I am able to share my joy of it on this forum.

Take care all, and God Bless.

 

[whitty]

We are one of Southern Grinds official dealers. I am proud to sell this knife. We have sold a good number in the past few months. We have had no complaints and actually had several repeat customers. People can say what they want about the steel choice but those who own them and use them will tell you it is awesome. I think heat treat and edge geometry can play a big role in how a knife holds up.

On another note I think it is awesome that not only are you a knife collector but an admitted safe queen holder. I think that is very refreshing to see someone admit here!

Good luck in your decision!

Whitty

 

[wesessiah]

Thank you all, for the great feedback. I own a fairly sizeable knife collection, mostly folders, and mostly knives that you all own as well. For instance...Benchmade, Spyderco, Kershaw, Buck, and so on...I can think of only one of my folders that cost more than $200.00 (ZT0301). I've been wanting a Chris Reeve folder for a long time now, it seems as the only thing holding me back is the cost. I still plan on owning one, (Chris Reeve) but at the same time, I would like to add another high quality knife to my collection. So that is what drove me to ask about Southern Grind Knives.

I'm pretty sure I've stated this before, but just to clarify...I collect knives, I do not use them, at all. This may seem odd, or even silly to most, but It's just something that I enjoy doing. Collecting knives that is. So I can say, without a doubt, that all of my knives are 'safe queens'.

In closing, no matter what I intend to do with the knives I collect, one thing stands out...and that would be that by collecting knives, I am able to share my joy of it on this forum.

Take care all, and God Bless.

i understand the safe queens, but do you not have any knives you actually use?

We are one of Southern Grinds official dealers. I am proud to sell this knife. We have sold a good number in the past few months. We have had no complaints and actually had several repeat customers. People can say what they want about the steel choice but those who own them and use them will tell you it is awesome. I think heat treat and edge geometry can play a big role in how a knife holds up.

On another note I think it is awesome that not only are you a knife collector but an admitted safe queen holder. I think that is very refreshing to see someone admit here!

Good luck in your decision!

Whitty

i see you're in salisbury, i'm in lincoln county... do you have a store front? the only place around me other than the box stores (at least that i know of) is the great outdoors in cherryville.

 

[whitty]

i understand the safe queens, but do you not have any knives you actually use?


i see you're in salisbury, i'm in lincoln county... do you have a store front? the only place around me other than the box stores (at least that i know of) is the great outdoors in cherryville.

No store front yet but we are working hard on it! Hopefully in the next 6-9 months. Shoot me a PM though and maybe we can get together when one of us is traveling down 85!

 

[whitty]

Just wanted to add to this post. I hate tanto blades! I mean hate them. Well I ended up giving myself one of their modified tantos for my birthday. It is just pretty to me!

I have worked the knife hard and anyone who knows or follows me knows I am a huge ZT fan. I will say this much, if you are concerned about the steel? Don't be! It has performed well beyond any of my expectations!

Whitty

 

[marthinus]

Seems like a good quality product. 14C28N is a fine steel with good edge properties.

Here is some testing by a local maker on one of his kitchen knives.

Final grind done, blades all shiny again:

With the final grinding done I started wondering just how tough this new Sandvik steel is. I opted for a rather hard blade at 60HRC, especially for the size of the blades. Puma go as low as 56HRC on their broad bladed knives, remember, the larger the knife the more leverage you have and the harder the steel the more brittle it is. Then I recall Miles telling of a chef's knife he dropped and it broke in two! Now since one of these knives is for Miles I decided to do the chop test to put my mind at ease. I took a 7mm piece of scrap round bar from old burglar proofing and a heavy hammer and marked the spot where I'm about to abuse the blade so I'll know where to look for damage. I proceeded to hammer away at the blade spine with the rod on my cute little anvil:

After the first blow the blade was more than halfway through the 7mm round bar, the blade did not shatter and the cutting edge did not chip:tanks:


Two more blows severed the rod and I checked the blade for damage....NONE, not where the hammer struck nor at the cutting edge, all I could see was a smear of mild steel on the cutting edge.



..and not as much as a dent or mark on the spine where the hammer struck:




I will with confidence split a marrow bone or chop a branch off a tree with this 14C28n chef's knife and at 60HRC it's going to keep a keen edge for a while and more Miles can also shorten table legs in his kitchen if he wishes.

So next up is the sandblasting, stay tuned...

Mathinus I'm impressed with the elasticity of this steel at high hardness. I replaced my EDC blade with a piece of this steel a while ago because the original blade was badly worn through 4 years of constant sharpening. My EDC really gets abused since I don't feel sorry for it and the blade is holding up very well and keeps an edge through wood scraping work, opening tins, cutting cloth to name but a few abuses. I'll do a thread soon on the Kershaw Vapor with 'revised blade'. No better way to test steel as to put it on an EDC you don't feel sorry for.

Here's a pic of the bend test of the 14C28N, clamped between round bar in the vise, the vise is then cranked with a pipe extension wearing leather apron, gloves and eye protection in case the blade fails. These broad chef's knife blades showed no sign of deformation after testing when checked again on the marble slab, they returned to straight after my test. My point is that the blade should give enough without snapping for the user to feel he's bending it before it breaks. Bad hardening and tempering will see the 'accidental' snapping of a work blade before the user was even aware he was abusing it. My tests are worst case scenario.

And some testing done to its predecessor 13C26 or AEB-L in a larger knife.

Hey guys,

I make alot of hard use machetes from 52100 and they work great but I have been interested in using a stainless steel for people who live near salt water and want a hard use tool that is also resistant to corrosion.

I looked into steels like ELMAX and CPM 154 and a few others but for the most part the cost is just too high and there are still concerns with toughness and flexibility with stainless steels in long, thin blades.

Then I was introduced to AEB-L by Aldo. I did some further reading and was interested to see that it forms no chromium carbides and has enough free chromium to make it truly stainless. It seemed to me like it was more or less 1070 with free chromium.

After ordering up some .130 stock I made a machete and had Peters HT it to 58 at the edge with a spring tempered spine.
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Now, I haven't done extensive testing with this steel but it really seems to perform like 1070....while also being stainless.

First test I wanted to make sure it wouldn't break in half on me so I stuck it in a stump and gave it a few good bends. It can do 45+ degrees easy and come back true.

I did some chops into frozen hard wood and the edge help up without a problem.

Next I chopped it through a steel barrel 6 times. I wish I would have taken a picture but it suffered almost no edge damage--really impressive stuff.

I will report back after more extensive use but this steel really seems promising for bigger blades that need to be stainless.

Did some more testing today. This is a really tough steel. I don't think it takes damage quite as well as 52100 but then again few steels do. It certainly behaves like a simple high carbon steel. If you asked me to guess what steel it was after my tests today I'd probably say something like 1060 or 1070. I think AEB-L is about as tough as a similar alloy content carbon steel.

I gave it a few really deep bends today and it came back true without issue. I actually got it near 90 degrees but had a hard time getting a pic of it one handed.

Next I thinned down the edge a bit and gave it a bunch of chops into a steel barrel. This damaged the edge pretty badly but As thin as I had the edge I don't think many steels could do that without taking considerable damage.

Finally I chopped some nails that were in a 2x4. The edge again suffered damage but not very much.

Edge post nail chopping. Every time I hit a nail I got a small chip. I didn't have a good setup though and bet it would do much better with a secure target and a handle :thumbup:

 

[jac_solar]

Thank you all, for the great feedback. I own a fairly sizeable knife collection, mostly folders, and mostly knives that you all own as well. For instance...Benchmade, Spyderco, Kershaw, Buck, and so on...I can think of only one of my folders that cost more than $200.00 (ZT0301). I've been wanting a Chris Reeve folder for a long time now, it seems as the only thing holding me back is the cost. I still plan on owning one, (Chris Reeve) but at the same time, I would like to add another high quality knife to my collection. So that is what drove me to ask about Southern Grind Knives.

I'm pretty sure I've stated this before, but just to clarify...I collect knives, I do not use them, at all. This may seem odd, or even silly to most, but It's just something that I enjoy doing. Collecting knives that is. So I can say, without a doubt, that all of my knives are 'safe queens'.

In closing, no matter what I intend to do with the knives I collect, one thing stands out...and that would be that by collecting knives, I am able to share my joy of it on this forum.

Take care all, and God Bless.

Same here!

 

[wesessiah]

No store front yet but we are working hard on it! Hopefully in the next 6-9 months. Shoot me a PM though and maybe we can get together when one of us is traveling down 85!

yeah, definitely :thumbup:

Seems like a good quality product. 14C28N is a fine steel with good edge properties.

Here is some testing by a local maker on one of his kitchen knives.






And some testing done to its predecessor 13C26 or AEB-L in a largner knife.

nobody is calling it a bad steel, it's a good steel, it's just not on par for overall properties compared to other steels that come on knives in the $250 price range. it just seems like an odd combination to have premium materials and an excellent design then use a blade that's comparable to 440/aus. g10 and even frn serve people just fine... it doesn't mean people want to pay micarta or carbon fiber prices for frn.

 

[JacksonKnives]

nobody is calling it a bad steel, it's a good steel, it's just not on par for overall properties compared to other steels that come on knives in the $250 price range. it just seems like an odd combination to have premium materials and an excellent design then use a blade that's comparable to 440/aus. g10 and even frn serve people just fine... it doesn't mean people want to pay micarta or carbon fiber prices for frn.

Isn't S30V/S35VN an "odd combination" to incorporate into Chris Reeve's ultra-premium folders? (What about BG-42?) What are the "overall properties" we're supposed to be conforming with?

I don't have anything against S30; I own plenty of knives that use it, and I trust them. But mostly I trust them because they're knives made by mfgs or makers who actually care about the choice of blade steel and the heat treatment given. I'd take a Spyderco in VG-10 over a knife in M390 by certain other makers any day of the week.

I'm not saying that Southern Grind has come up with a secret recipe for making 14c28n the best steel available, but if their shop (or the shop of whomever does their HT) knows how to get *what they want* out of 14c28n, then it will be *the knife it was supposed to be.* If you don't want that knife... don't buy it.

 

[wesessiah]

Isn't S30V/S35VN an "odd combination" to incorporate into Chris Reeve's ultra-premium folders? (What about BG-42?)

I don't have anything against S30; I own plenty of knives that use it, and I trust them. But mostly I trust them because they're knives made by mfgs or makers who actually care about the choice of blade steel and the heat treatment given. I'd take a Spyderco in VG-10 over a knife in M390 by certain other makers any day of the week.

I'm not saying that Southern Grind has come up with a secret recipe for making 14c28n the best steel available, but if their shop (or the shop of whomever does their HT) knows how to get *what they want* out of 14c28n, then it will be *the knife it was supposed to be.* If you don't want that knife... don't buy it.

i agree with the don't buy it idea, but 14c28n, regardless of how decent of a user it is, is lowballing for the price range. s30v and s35vn are noticeably better then it, and are at least considered premium steels, whereas 14c28n is not, but is being included on a knife for a premium price. i just don't see how the use of 14c28n can be justified for their price point when s30v would be a drop in the bucket to them as far as price, and 154cm would be even less of a drop in the bucket. i personally like steels i can sharpen quickly, but this knife is not going to see the same use as 99% of the knives that use 14c28n. most of the people that buy expensive knives aren't users to the extent they like to feel like. the term "bushcrafting" is an example of this as those people see themselves as doing something special, where i always just saw myself as doing an every day routine and had not clue there was a name for it other than "life" until i joined this forum. maybe i'm coming off as much of an elitist as i see "bushcrafters" but i don't see any reason a mid grade steel should be used with other premium matierals and prices.

 

[Ankerson]

Interesting thread, found it from the other thread.....

Anyway here is my take on it for what it's worth as we are talking about folders here I suppose.

14C28n isn't a bad steel for a user steel, however it doesn't have the alloy content to keep pace with some of the other higher performing steels in regards to edge retention and that's taking into count a good HT and tempering process.

It all comes down to real use and how the said knives will be used.

Price factor will come into it as they seem to be in the $250 range so one has to make some choices on what level of performance they want and the other knives available in that same range and what materials they are using.

It's all about choices.

 

[Bigfatts]

i don't see any reason a mid grade steel should be used with other premium matierals and prices.

The reason is that it works. I have a handful of low priced 14c28n knives, and I have a Bad Monkey. The low priced Kershaws, etc Sandvick doesn't hold a candle to the BM in the edge it will take or its retention. Probably just a better HT but either way, it just works. Southern Grind knows that and they're selling knives about as fast as they can make them. Not everyone has to buy one or even like the knife, but the reason Southern Grind is putting them out is the same reason any other manufacturer puts out any product- because people are willing to buy them. If that changes, look for a price change or new steel offerings.

I have a theory about their price increase. When the knives hit the market, they literally couldn't keep up with the demand. I don't think they were prepared for the knives to sell as well as they did. My local shop was buying them at regular price from SG and selling them at retail and couldn't keep them on the shelf. The price increase probably slowed sales down enough for them to produce enough for them to sell themselves and be able to offer dealerships, of which my local shop is now one. Less of a hustle in production also gives them the time to work on new offerings. I hear there are some very interesting collaborations being talked about. Anyways, those are just thoughts from my brain.

And part of the reason I am willing to support them- besides their making a fine product- is that they're good people. Part of every knife sale goes to their charity foundation, that's nice. And they're also a breeze to deal with. My original BM had a weak detent (that was an issue in the first runs) and it was replaced no questions asked. And I even had the choice of going with a FG instead of the HG I had. When I bought the knife here on the exchange the HG was the only grind I could find. So it was nice to get tge flat grind I really wanted.

 

[wesessiah]

The reason is that it works. I have a handful of low priced 14c28n knives, and I have a Bad Monkey. The low priced Kershaws, etc Sandvick doesn't hold a candle to the BM in the edge it will take or its retention. Probably just a better HT but either way, it just works. Southern Grind knows that and they're selling knives about as fast as they can make them. Not everyone has to buy one or even like the knife, but the reason Southern Grind is putting them out is the same reason any other manufacturer puts out any product- because people are willing to buy them. If that changes, look for a price change or new steel offerings.

I have a theory about their price increase. When the knives hit the market, they literally couldn't keep up with the demand. I don't think they were prepared for the knives to sell as well as they did. My local shop was buying them at regular price from SG and selling them at retail and couldn't keep them on the shelf. The price increase probably slowed sales down enough for them to produce enough for them to sell themselves and be able to offer dealerships, of which my local shop is now one. Less of a hustle in production also gives them the time to work on new offerings. I hear there are some very interesting collaborations being talked about. Anyways, those are just thoughts from my brain.

And part of the reason I am willing to support them- besides their making a fine product- is that they're good people. Part of every knife sale goes to their charity foundation, that's nice. And they're also a breeze to deal with. My original BM had a weak detent (that was an issue in the first runs) and it was replaced no questions asked. And I even had the choice of going with a FG instead of the HG I had. When I bought the knife here on the exchange the HG was the only grind I could find. So it was nice to get tge flat grind I really wanted.

i don't doubt it's a good knife, and i can't comment on how well their 14c28n performs based on how good their heat treat is, but basically anyone who sees the name of the formerly kershaw exclusive steel will probably think "mediocre." i won't say it's a good knife or bad knife, i wouldn't mind having one, but i'm in the camp that's not paying $250 for a step up from razor steel. it just seems bass ackwards to me to make every part of the knife uber premium except the most significant part of it... maybe it's just me, but i'd also kind of expect an american steel out of a knife that a country singer attaches his reputation too.

edit: just to clarify, i have no problem with 14c28n or other steels in that range, i just can't bring myself to buy a knife that's 5 times more expensive than the typical knives that use that steel. it's a good steel, takes a nice edge, and easy to sharpen, but those are not the properties that make a steel a premium steel.

 

[jstrange]

Thank you all, for the great feedback. I own a fairly sizeable knife collection, mostly folders, and mostly knives that you all own as well. For instance...Benchmade, Spyderco, Kershaw, Buck, and so on...I can think of only one of my folders that cost more than $200.00 (ZT0301). I've been wanting a Chris Reeve folder for a long time now, it seems as the only thing holding me back is the cost. I still plan on owning one, (Chris Reeve) but at the same time, I would like to add another high quality knife to my collection. So that is what drove me to ask about Southern Grind Knives.

I'm pretty sure I've stated this before, but just to clarify...I collect knives, I do not use them, at all. This may seem odd, or even silly to most, but It's just something that I enjoy doing. Collecting knives that is. So I can say, without a doubt, that all of my knives are 'safe queens'.

In closing, no matter what I intend to do with the knives I collect, one thing stands out...and that would be that by collecting knives, I am able to share my joy of it on this forum.

Take care all, and God Bless.

If that's the case I wouldn't hesitate to grab one. As I said, its very nice and well put together and its from a unique company. As a collector item its probably hard to beat (who knows how long the company will be around). With that said, I would still get one even if you said it would be used hard and put up wet. Its a nice knife.

 

[marthinus]

edit: just to clarify, i have no problem with 14c28n or other steels in that range, i just can't bring myself to buy a knife that's 5 times more expensive than the typical knives that use that steel. it's a good steel, takes a nice edge, and easy to sharpen, but those are not the properties that make a steel a premium steel.

What, in your opinion, is the properties that make a premium steel?

 

[John_0917]

I like Zac Brown, I like their music and the design of SG knives and I like 14C28N...BUT, I can't justify the price with that steel.

 

[wesessiah]

What, in your opinion, is the properties that make a premium steel?

i feel like this is going to be a gotcha moment, as in you're going to try to say i don't know the differences in the properties, or try to say a steel above my arbitrary line of premium is more similar to 14c28n than other "premium" steels. but anyway... the obvious one would probably be edge retention... wear resistence and hardenability seem to go hand in hand with premium steels. to give my arbitrary line, to spring the trap, i start at 154cm/vg10 area, and below the commonly referred to super steels. for non stainless d2 would be the starting point, but or my uses the 10 series is about all i need and mostly have. most of my knives have steels below this premium tier of stainless, mostly in the range of aus8 to 440c. one defining feature overall for me would be sharpening. i don't mean fine edge vs toothy, but as simple as how the blade is to get back to a sharp edge from wear beyond just the point of touching up, and actually sharpening.