Spalted wood scale help

O

osage outlaw

Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
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Hello, I'm slowly getting into knife making. I've made a handful of skinning knives from old files and saw mill blades. Today at work I was asked to get rid of this big chunk of firewood. When I picked it up I noticed it was spalted. I don't know what kind of wood it is. I'm guessing Maple. I cut the ends off of it and brought it home. I put a couple coats of spray lacquer on it and the colors really jumped out. I'd like to turn this into some knife scales but I'm not sure what the best route is. I have chainsaws and a 14" band saw. Which way to cut it to get the best looking scales? IT's about 14" x 14".

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Slice the log up like a loaf of bread. I cut my scales into 5" x 1 3/4" x 3/8" thick sections, wax the outside edges, stack, and sticker the layers on a level surface. Put a cement block on the top to keep the wood straight. Air dry one year/inch thickness so, six months does the trick for me. Then I ship the wood to K&G for stabilizing. Here's some spalted hackberry I slabbed, dried and stabilized.

 
My wife's favorite wood is spalted, just loves the patterns made and contrast. TK, that's a very nice looking knife with a striking hamon - love it!

Osage, not sure I'd cut into scales just yet - it's harder to keep them from warping, even with spalted wood which doesn't warp near so bad as green wood. You've got a nice pattern with the end grain, I'd prefer not end grain even with spalted woods. I'd tend to cut into blocks perhaps 1" to 1.5" by 2" or so and 5" to 6" long. As large as the chunk of wood you've got, you can get a LOTS of blocks, but don't be surprised at the amount of waste either.

you can send to K&G for a great product, but it's going to cost a good bit. Perhaps another idea is to work a trade with somebody that is setup for Cactus Juice stabilizing - they must have a temperature controlled oven and a good vacuum system to make it work right. Properly done Cactus Juice makes a nice product. Spalted woods are a GREAT wood for Cactus Juice since they soak up the resin so well.

Get another block of wood like that if you can.

BTW Osage, what part of the world are you in?
Ken H>
 
Ken I've heard others also say they wouldn't use end grain, and I certainly wouldn't in an unstabilized wood, but have you had issues, or seen issues, with stabilized wood having problems due to being cut in end grain orientation?

My large piece of spalted maple that I need to start slicing down has the most dramatic spalting in the end grain, and I was hoping that once stabilized it would be relatively secure.
 
Thanks for all the info. I checked out the prices of sending some to K&G. I can't afford that. I looked into some methods of stabilizing wood myself. I'm located in S.E. Indiana
 
You can't afford it? It's the most affordable way to stabilize a single batch.

I just send them 3 large flat rate boxes of wood. It was 22 lbs of dry wood. They just called to ship them back, and it's now 39 lbs of stabilized wood, so $390. This is enough wood in blocks and scales to do over 100 knives. $4 per knife is quite affordable.

If you're considering doing it yourself, which is great, I do it too, consider that you will spend $100 on a gallon of cactus juice, $100 on a vacuum chamber if you buy a cheap aluminum one like I have, and $75-$100 on a marginal vacuum pump that may or may not achieve the vacuum necessary to stabilize properly. Then after spending around $300 you have to do it, and do it right, and 1 gallon of cactus juice will not be enough to do 22 lbs of wood.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from getting into doing your own stabilizing. I do it and enjoy doing it and having the capability allows me to do some things others might not be able to, and done properly I think it gives very satisfactory results if not quite to the same level as commercially done stabilizing. I'm just trying to put the expense into a little better perspective.

Now, if you're going to get someone set up to do it for you for less than K&G offers, that's different and may be quite a bit cheaper, but I'd worry about what you actually get from that person, as one needs to be rather particular about the process to achieve good results. I wouldn't offer to do it for you because I have a high enough failure rate that I wouldn't want to risk scrapping your piece of wood.
 
You don't want to use the end grain, but need to slice it up so the part you are showing is the ends of the blocks.

When I cut up spalted logs, I cut it across the log into round slabs 6" thick. Then I slice each slab into two semi-circles on the bandsaw. That will let you see the spalting that will show on the scales/blocks. Following the straight edge of the semi-circle, I slice it into 2" to 3" wide strips, and then cut those into blocks between 2X3X6 and 1.5X2X6 .... depending on how decayed the wood is.
These are stacked in milk crates to dry for about a year, and then trimmed up to expose a clean surface. I have them stabilized, and when returned sand the exposed surfaces to get them ready for use. If scales are desired, I cut them from the blocks about a week before use and let them adjust before sanding flat and installing.

End grain spalt looks fantastic, but is very prone to cracking either in stabilizing or on the handle later on.

One piece of advise.
You will get hundreds of blocks from a 2' long log. Toss any with cracks or flaws, and let them dry for six months to a year. When dry, lay them all out on the garage floor, driveway, or on a picnic table. You may think they are all great, and will be tempted to send them all for stabilizing. Do yourself a favor and pick the best 10 or 20 out of the batch. Look for good spalting and not a sign of a crack. Send them off for the first stabilizing batch. While they are at the stabilizer, pick the next 10 or 20 best out. Put them in a box and when the others get back and are cleaned up, compare the second batch to them. If you still like the second batch, send them off. Pick 20 more and repeat. Usually long before the whole batch of blocks is used up you will decide that the rest are best used for firewood. If they are all truly good, and you don't want 100 stabilized blocks ( and the expense of stabilizing them), then sell them as unstabilized blocks in bundles of 10 for a good low price ( maybe $50 for 10 to $100 for 10, depending on how good they are). You can show a representative photo of the stabilized blocks so the buyers can get an idea of what they will turn into.

I have a batch of spalted persimmon getting ready to go to the stabilizer, and will shoot some photos of the slabs and blocks this weekend.
 
$390 for knife scales is no where near my budget. I've only made a few knives and they were for family and friends. I'm still using a 1"x30" belt sander to do my grinding work. I would be better off to save up for a better grinder. I have to cut and sell osage bow staves for extra money to fund my hobbies so it takes me a while to upgrade tools and supplies.

The home stabilization videos I was watching on youtube showed how to do it with a canning jar and boiling water. I'm sure that isn't near the quality as having it professionally done. I was hoping that would be good enough for the type of knives that I would make from them. I have used walnut and osage for scales so far and didn't stabilize them.
 
You're not talking about using walnut or osage in this thread, both dense, stable woods. You're talking about using spalted wood that is essentially in a state of decay. You don't need to spend $390 dollars having it done, you could send 2 lbs of wood and have it done for $28.

I believe you're going to spend more than that on cactus juice and waste it by trying to do it on your stove top.

But, whatever you do, good luck.

I know I said I wouldn't be willing to stabilize anything for someone, but, now I'm going to go back on that because I think you're going to throw money away and have nothing to show for it. I'd be willing to stabilize some for you in trade for a couple bow staves. It's something I've always wanted to try making. Let me know if you'd like to do something like that.
 
I totally agree with kuraki on doing spalted wood professionally. MY opinion of cactus juice is pretty low, but a member here says he has good results with it. He is sending me some spalted pecan done in cactus juice for me to try and compare to my spalted pecan done professionally. I will post the results when the comparison is done..

One other thing I meant to point out is that spalted wood like yours is better uses as a solid block in a hidden tang than as scales. It tends to crack a bit easier than solid wood, even with stabilization. If used as scales glue a liner under it for strength. Thin scales are the worst situation, and really aren't a good choice for heavily spalted or softened by decay woods.
 
Stacy, did you know your name is an anagram of "cat eye spalt", which sounds like an amazing material for handles. Just saying...!
 
osage outlaw said:
$390 for knife scales is no where near my budget. I've only made a few knives and they were for family and friends. I'm still using a 1"x30" belt sander to do my grinding work. I would be better off to save up for a better grinder. I have to cut and sell osage bow staves for extra money to fund my hobbies so it takes me a while to upgrade tools and supplies.

The home stabilization videos I was watching on youtube showed how to do it with a canning jar and boiling water. I'm sure that isn't near the quality as having it professionally done. I was hoping that would be good enough for the type of knives that I would make from them. I have used walnut and osage for scales so far and didn't stabilize them.
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I don't know what roll boiling water would play in stabilizing. If you heat cactus juice to boiling it will cure. you need to soak the wood in a proper stabilizing resin under a vacuum ( a good vacuum). after the bubbles stop, you release the vacuum let it soak for a day. You then bake the wood at 200 to cure the resin. If you aren't drawing he stabilizer into the wood under vacuum it will be only stabilized on the surface, not good when you will be removing material later on. Also Minwax wood hardener isn't even in the same ballpark as a proper heat curing stabilizing resin, ESPECIALLY for spalted wood.
 
Have it done by k&g. Don't do it yourself.

Home stabilized wood is not and will never be as good as professionally done materual, but for some woods this doesn't matter. Oak, maple, walnut and cherry tend to gain ~50 to 75 percent weight after stabilzing. I have had spalted maple more than triple. A small home kit will not yield anything near that result, and you will have a product that in my opinion would not be acceptable on a knife.
 
kuraki said:
I know I said I wouldn't be willing to stabilize anything for someone, but, now I'm going to go back on that because I think you're going to throw money away and have nothing to show for it. I'd be willing to stabilize some for you in trade for a couple bow staves. It's something I've always wanted to try making. Let me know if you'd like to do something like that.
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Thanks. I might take you up on this offer. Let me get it cut up and see what kind of pieces I get out of it.
 
Look up (Google) quarter sawn and rift sawn cutting diagrams and it will show you how to slice the log. Think through how to get the best yield - keeping in mind that some of the block will actually be scrap, beyond salvage. If you don't have large tools, hand saw it in half.

Then - K&G, all the way.
 
If you want to get an idea of the strength of the end grain wood for scales just cut a 1/2" thick slice off the end.
Then hold it in your hand and see how many pieces you can break the slice into.
Then cut a slice the length of the log piece equal thickness and try breaking that by hand.

In the years past I have tried having end grain spalted maple stabilized.
A good portion came back cracked and I could still break a lot of the solid pieces by hand.
My opinion is that there is a lot of things that can go wrong when you do things the right way.
Doing things the wrong way even more can and will go wrong.

Like Stacy said, cut your pieces the length of the log and discard any pieces with cracks. Then let those pieces dry about a year. Then discard the pieces that cracked while drying. Then stabilize the best remaining pieces.
 
It will look great if you cut it length wise with the grain. You will have lots of spalting in it. Like Stacy says, keep the great looking stuff and toss the rest. I just cut up some butternut crotch that I got off a firewood pile. Got 10 great looking blocks...rest was "Meh." They went back to the firewood pile.

Getting it stabilized at K&G is good value. The first time I sent them 10 blocks and paid about $65 by the time I factored in shipping....$6.50/block. Way cheaper than buying stabilized stuff. I live in the Pacific North West so I started watching for Maple Burl furniture and clocks for cheap, and started watching the deadfalls and local neighbours wood piles when they were cutting firewood. I have a ton of great looking maple now. Last batch I sent off was 40 blocks. Had some stained. Worked out to about $5.50/ block. Send a small batch and see what you get.
 
While some may find the "Cactus Juice" very suitable one of my friends confessed he will now only do scales.
Yes he has all the equipment and does know what he is doing.
Frank
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
MY opinion of cactus juice is pretty low, but a member here says he has good results with it. He is sending me some spalted pecan done in cactus juice for me to try and compare to my spalted pecan done professionally. I will post the results when the comparison is done.
Click to expand...

Hi Stacy, I was wondering if you have had a chance to test the difference between these cactus juice stabilized versus k&g/wssi stabilized spalted pecan. Did you measure density as well as dimensional stability? Thanks!
 
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