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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
SPAM!
- Thread starter Ewok
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 23, 1999
- Messages
- 5,855
Is it possible for the Forumites to unite against a common enemy and retalliate with a spam attack of our own??? Ie... lets all make it a point to send this dork a couple emails a day for a week or two and see how he likes it. Just think about it, everytime his puter comes on boom.......1000 emails!!!! Well, lemme know if you're all intersted in this. Would be a waste of time if just a few did it. We need atleast 1000 dedicated Forumites in this war!!!!! Take care! Michael
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"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"
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"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 75,759
L6Steel, that's one of the things an anti-spam bot can do. It does it much faster than a thousand of us could, too. There's more to it than that, though.
First you have to determine where the spam came from. The reply-to field is usually a trap to collect valid addresses, as SB pointed out above, and sometimes even the path field is partially forged ... there are ways to do that, using another kind of bot to locate ISPs with holes in their security -- so sending a mailbomb is not as easy as just clicking "reply."
Then, once you've located the true originating system, the customary next step is to send a copy of the spam to abuse@fubar.foo and only if the system administrator refuses to yank the spammer's account would it be appropriate to mailbomb the system. That's who you'd be mailbombing, by the way -- the whole ISP, not the individual who sent the spam -- so you shouldn't send mailbombs unless the system administrator refuses to cooperate. (IMHO ... there are people who do; who feel it's an admin's responsibility to see that no one ever uses his system to post spam even once ... but in practice, how could he do that? So most people give him one chance to zap the spammer.)
I'm only summarizing here; there's far too much info to put into one post....
If you do have to take steps against an spam haven (an ISP that allows spam; usually that is their primary business, btw) ... spam havens run some pretty sophisticated mail filters; it's not easy to get a mailbomb through those filters. A good mailbomb bot sends a large number (large in computer terms) of short messages each with different reply-to, originator, subject, text, etc. fields -- practically everything about each message is different, so there's no easy way for the victim to identify them and filter them out....
The spam havens retaliate with mailbombs of their own. It's a war of geeks and the geekiest geek wins. Fortunately for anarchy, the really high-powered geeks are on our side ... there's something about very high intelligence that predisposes one against selling out to the other side, apparently, and predisposes one to spend one's spare time doing things like writing warbots and using them against spam without getting paid for it, purely for the pleasure of doing good.
There are other ways to attack spam havens, too ... too involved to go into here, and besides some person or persons have been known to abuse some of the tricks and use them against this website ... that person or persons might be reading this, and fortunately for us he doesn't seem to know much ... let's keep it that way.
The ultimate recourse is the IDP: the Internet Death Penalty. That's when all the other system administrators refuse to accept any messages from an abusive system. The net is an anarchy and every system administrator can do whatever he wants ... and all the others can respond to what he does any way they want. So a system admin can choose to sell accounts to spammers if he wants to, and all the other sys admins can cut off their connections to him -- each acting as a free individual, no government or compulsion organization of any kind involved at all. If some admins don't cut him off and continue to let him send spam through their systems -- no one will accept messages from those systems, either. Anarchy is a wonderful thing! Anarchy works!
More info all over the net ... look into it, don't just click "reply" and send off a mailbomb; that's more likely to harm the innocent than the spammer (and it can get you into trouble, too).
The weakness in every commercial spam is the spammer has to give you some way to get in touch with him -- or how could he get your money? If he doesn't give you a valid email address or url he has to give you a phone number or a snailmail address. Every time an 800 number is called the owner has to pay a fee to the phone company, and of course that line is tied up for the duration of the call. You don't have to call yourself; a bot can do that. Or if he gives his snailmail address a bot can sign him up for magazine subscriptions and catalogs ... thousands of catalogs ... thousands more arriving every day....
Computers are much faster than people. A very simple bot can dial the phone faster than your fingers can move, send off emails by the thousands while you're in another window writing a post -- otherwise the computer would only be spending practically all its time waiting for you to hit the next key....
-Cougar Allen :{)
[This message has been edited by Cougar Allen (edited 18 November 1999).]
First you have to determine where the spam came from. The reply-to field is usually a trap to collect valid addresses, as SB pointed out above, and sometimes even the path field is partially forged ... there are ways to do that, using another kind of bot to locate ISPs with holes in their security -- so sending a mailbomb is not as easy as just clicking "reply."
Then, once you've located the true originating system, the customary next step is to send a copy of the spam to abuse@fubar.foo and only if the system administrator refuses to yank the spammer's account would it be appropriate to mailbomb the system. That's who you'd be mailbombing, by the way -- the whole ISP, not the individual who sent the spam -- so you shouldn't send mailbombs unless the system administrator refuses to cooperate. (IMHO ... there are people who do; who feel it's an admin's responsibility to see that no one ever uses his system to post spam even once ... but in practice, how could he do that? So most people give him one chance to zap the spammer.)
I'm only summarizing here; there's far too much info to put into one post....
If you do have to take steps against an spam haven (an ISP that allows spam; usually that is their primary business, btw) ... spam havens run some pretty sophisticated mail filters; it's not easy to get a mailbomb through those filters. A good mailbomb bot sends a large number (large in computer terms) of short messages each with different reply-to, originator, subject, text, etc. fields -- practically everything about each message is different, so there's no easy way for the victim to identify them and filter them out....
The spam havens retaliate with mailbombs of their own. It's a war of geeks and the geekiest geek wins. Fortunately for anarchy, the really high-powered geeks are on our side ... there's something about very high intelligence that predisposes one against selling out to the other side, apparently, and predisposes one to spend one's spare time doing things like writing warbots and using them against spam without getting paid for it, purely for the pleasure of doing good.
There are other ways to attack spam havens, too ... too involved to go into here, and besides some person or persons have been known to abuse some of the tricks and use them against this website ... that person or persons might be reading this, and fortunately for us he doesn't seem to know much ... let's keep it that way.
The ultimate recourse is the IDP: the Internet Death Penalty. That's when all the other system administrators refuse to accept any messages from an abusive system. The net is an anarchy and every system administrator can do whatever he wants ... and all the others can respond to what he does any way they want. So a system admin can choose to sell accounts to spammers if he wants to, and all the other sys admins can cut off their connections to him -- each acting as a free individual, no government or compulsion organization of any kind involved at all. If some admins don't cut him off and continue to let him send spam through their systems -- no one will accept messages from those systems, either. Anarchy is a wonderful thing! Anarchy works!
More info all over the net ... look into it, don't just click "reply" and send off a mailbomb; that's more likely to harm the innocent than the spammer (and it can get you into trouble, too).
The weakness in every commercial spam is the spammer has to give you some way to get in touch with him -- or how could he get your money? If he doesn't give you a valid email address or url he has to give you a phone number or a snailmail address. Every time an 800 number is called the owner has to pay a fee to the phone company, and of course that line is tied up for the duration of the call. You don't have to call yourself; a bot can do that. Or if he gives his snailmail address a bot can sign him up for magazine subscriptions and catalogs ... thousands of catalogs ... thousands more arriving every day....
Computers are much faster than people. A very simple bot can dial the phone faster than your fingers can move, send off emails by the thousands while you're in another window writing a post -- otherwise the computer would only be spending practically all its time waiting for you to hit the next key....
-Cougar Allen :{)
[This message has been edited by Cougar Allen (edited 18 November 1999).]
Okay call me an idiot also.... call me a scum bag..... gasp, call me a spammer.... but hold judgement till you know whats going on.
I got the spam and simply deleted it. I chuckled and thought "this guy doesn't get it". Hey, he may really have thought he was doing his knife friends a favour by sending this chance at some cash! His subject read something like "cash for extra knives" or something. That doesn't sound to me like he hates me.
Well..... naw.... lets beat him up awhile. Let's pull his privileges. Hey some people may read no spam and not know what it means
How about given him a chance to explain and apologize?????
I got the spam and simply deleted it. I chuckled and thought "this guy doesn't get it". Hey, he may really have thought he was doing his knife friends a favour by sending this chance at some cash! His subject read something like "cash for extra knives" or something. That doesn't sound to me like he hates me.
Well..... naw.... lets beat him up awhile. Let's pull his privileges. Hey some people may read no spam and not know what it means
How about given him a chance to explain and apologize?????
CK, are you hoping to eat the spam or the spammer?
RadarMan, I somewhat disagree. The 'Net is drowning in spam, virus hoaxes, &c. When someone drives this badly on the "information superhighway", he or she should have his license to drive taken for at least a while. We don't have to <EM>hate</EM> the guy, but responsibility needs to be <EM>thumped</EM> into people.
RadarMan, I somewhat disagree. The 'Net is drowning in spam, virus hoaxes, &c. When someone drives this badly on the "information superhighway", he or she should have his license to drive taken for at least a while. We don't have to <EM>hate</EM> the guy, but responsibility needs to be <EM>thumped</EM> into people.
Ok a few things...
Every header in the email can be forget, except the first of the path, the "Received:". (If I remember correctly, it's the last one reading from the beginning). These are fields that you commonly don't see with email programs like MS Outlook or Netscape (you can see them though - at least with MS OE). As you have probably noted the "To:" - field usually doesn't even include you address - all the other fields can be forged. The mail server first asks the mailer (program) to submit the addresses and then the mailer itself submits all these fields. They can contain anything. Good mail servers need a user name and a password to be able to send email... some don't. And those are the ones (wise) spmmers use. There is possibly no trace of who actually sent the spam. But the first "Received"-field contains some good information, like the IP-numbers.
Don't ever answer to spammers - you'll just make sure you'll get more spam. It's been said before, but I'll say it again. The instructions for removing yourself are just traps to get valid working email addresses. Don't answer them.
Spark, would it be to bad (for users) to disguise all the emails of the BF members so that it would be much harder to make a program to read them in? For instance put some spaces and substitute then "@" with something like "at", or... Although I already think one would have to make a program to read them in already as they are not listed on any single page, the program would need to open different page for each member and read the emails from there. But still they can now all be found with a program that just follows links and tries to find strings that look like email addresses.
Hugo.
Every header in the email can be forget, except the first of the path, the "Received:". (If I remember correctly, it's the last one reading from the beginning). These are fields that you commonly don't see with email programs like MS Outlook or Netscape (you can see them though - at least with MS OE). As you have probably noted the "To:" - field usually doesn't even include you address - all the other fields can be forged. The mail server first asks the mailer (program) to submit the addresses and then the mailer itself submits all these fields. They can contain anything. Good mail servers need a user name and a password to be able to send email... some don't. And those are the ones (wise) spmmers use. There is possibly no trace of who actually sent the spam. But the first "Received"-field contains some good information, like the IP-numbers.
Don't ever answer to spammers - you'll just make sure you'll get more spam. It's been said before, but I'll say it again. The instructions for removing yourself are just traps to get valid working email addresses. Don't answer them.
Spark, would it be to bad (for users) to disguise all the emails of the BF members so that it would be much harder to make a program to read them in? For instance put some spaces and substitute then "@" with something like "at", or... Although I already think one would have to make a program to read them in already as they are not listed on any single page, the program would need to open different page for each member and read the emails from there. But still they can now all be found with a program that just follows links and tries to find strings that look like email addresses.
Hugo.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 15,223
Won't matter. Our board is already set up so that email harvester bots can't get email addresses off of it, and you have the option of not showing your email address publicly in your profile. Choose that option if you no longer want your email information displayed.
Spark
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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
Insert witty quip here
Spark
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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
Insert witty quip here
- Joined
- Oct 20, 1999
- Messages
- 127
folks:
i'm a network manager at a *large* installation, although my responsibilities are limited to only one segment of that. so, from that perspective...
complain to the ISP, try to get the spammer's account pulled, and try to get YOUR ISP to block the bad guys out... but consider the following before you decide to implement mailbombs, automated or otherwise: if you send thousands of email messages out in retaliation, those thousands of email messages travel the same internet "wires" as your email postings to Bladeforums, your emails to your mom, and your web downloads from your fave knife sites. email is just another form of traffic, and it must be processed somewhere before it reaches its destination, whether that destination be Mom or the stupid spammer. processing centers (aka routers, hubs, servers, etc.) throughout the internet get flooded--and sometimes overwhelmed--every time someone decides to send off a spam or a mailbomb.
sometimes your internet connection is slower than others--ever wonder why? it's because there are more kids on the road, all of us trying to use the same wires and processing centers. if one kid sends off a billion emails in an effort to make money or punish a spammer, it only slows down the net for the rest of us. in my experience, mailbombs against a spammer seldom affect the spammer in any real way; the ones who end up getting slammed are the poor sysops working on the servers
as well as the other (innocent) folks trying to use the same piece of the internet.
to quote an old silly ad: "give a hoot--don't pollute" -- goes for our wonderful internet playground as well as the big outdoors most of us love so much.
the above is just my perspective from the other side of the server
-- sorry if i sound preachy, but dang, i hate spammers of all kinds, they make me and my friends work too many long hours!
all this talk of spam, spam, spam and eggs is making me STARVING...make my eggs green, tho', pleeze
silverwing
san diego, california
birthplace of sam i am
[This message has been edited by silverwing (edited 19 November 1999).]
i'm a network manager at a *large* installation, although my responsibilities are limited to only one segment of that. so, from that perspective...
complain to the ISP, try to get the spammer's account pulled, and try to get YOUR ISP to block the bad guys out... but consider the following before you decide to implement mailbombs, automated or otherwise: if you send thousands of email messages out in retaliation, those thousands of email messages travel the same internet "wires" as your email postings to Bladeforums, your emails to your mom, and your web downloads from your fave knife sites. email is just another form of traffic, and it must be processed somewhere before it reaches its destination, whether that destination be Mom or the stupid spammer. processing centers (aka routers, hubs, servers, etc.) throughout the internet get flooded--and sometimes overwhelmed--every time someone decides to send off a spam or a mailbomb.
sometimes your internet connection is slower than others--ever wonder why? it's because there are more kids on the road, all of us trying to use the same wires and processing centers. if one kid sends off a billion emails in an effort to make money or punish a spammer, it only slows down the net for the rest of us. in my experience, mailbombs against a spammer seldom affect the spammer in any real way; the ones who end up getting slammed are the poor sysops working on the servers
to quote an old silly ad: "give a hoot--don't pollute" -- goes for our wonderful internet playground as well as the big outdoors most of us love so much.
the above is just my perspective from the other side of the server
all this talk of spam, spam, spam and eggs is making me STARVING...make my eggs green, tho', pleeze
silverwing
san diego, california
birthplace of sam i am
[This message has been edited by silverwing (edited 19 November 1999).]
- Joined
- Oct 1, 1999
- Messages
- 166
I'll have the spam, spam, spam, spam, bacon eggs and spam, hash browns and spam! With a side of spam, please! (with apologies to Monty Python)
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Chris Turner
Arkansas
"We Don't Rent Pigs" --Augustus McCrae
"I won't abide rude behavior in a man." -- Woodrow Call
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Chris Turner
Arkansas
"We Don't Rent Pigs" --Augustus McCrae
"I won't abide rude behavior in a man." -- Woodrow Call