speaking of Tool Steels.....Bayonet steel?

D

dennis75

Joined
Jan 2, 2003
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as an extra post to BladePrince's.

does anyone know from which steel most Bayonets are made?

i got a SIG 1957 bayo and it's close to impossible to sharpen. i tried coarse stones, coarse diamond and a steel file. major PITA, almost impossible. same thing goes for a SIG 1889 from someone i know....unworkable steel.

in the end i brought the thing to a prof. sharpener-shop to have it done by machines (belt-sander i assume).

anyone have any ideas, hints suggestions on this?

what steels are most bayonets made of?

(and yeah, i know they are supposed to be super-tough, and i know that most don't come with an edge because they're last-ditch stabbing weapons, but i don't like blades without a decent cutting edge).

i'm actually thinking of making the SIG bayo my main fixed-blade.....

tia for any useful info :thumbup: ,

denn
 
Bayonets are very poor knives, but good for throwing. I have a SIG bayonet that I use as a dedicated thrower, and the thing has held up with no damage. There is no edge on the blade. The steel is relatively soft and tough, so it can be used as a stabbing impliment attached to a rifle, with all that leverage, & not break. Trying to get a utility edge out of a bayonet is, IMO, a waste of effort.
 
to Rat and Cliff......the steel is definitely NOT 'soft', and it's almost impossible to sharpen, because it's as hard as Kryptonite. plus i got it with a very 'wide' angle, with no actual edge at all......

i've got quite some experience in sharpening, but this steel is just way too tough. it's like trying to sharpen a Chrome-Vanadium quality tool, it can't be done, it's way too tough

that's why i gave it to the sharpener-guy and let him apply his machines on the darn thing

denn
 
Do you have a pic of the bayonet in question?

There is no steel that is impossible to sharpen. You can even sharpen full-hard files. You might just need a coarser grit. The edge on my SIG bayonet is very thick and obtuse, so it would require a major reprofiling of the main grinds to get a useable edge. It dents and does not chip from metal/metal impacts, which is why I say it is soft.
 
right here:

11048.jpg
 
dennis75 said:
plus i got it with a very 'wide' angle, with no actual edge at all
Click to expand...

If the edge is not formed then it will take quite a bit of metal removal to get it to where it can be sharpened. On that class of knives I would generally use a file. Interesting that it can't be filed, that implies 60+ HRC unless the file is old or the blade has a plating.

-Cliff
 
it's true that the edge IS very obtuse and WILL need lots of reprofiling, and maybe i do
need a coarser grit (but i mean, i used a quality brand-new steelf-ile for crying out loud.......), that oughta take care of 52-54 HRC right? well, it doesn't it. it takes forever and annoye me some much i gave up on it. it was basically eating my stones and steel-file

and no, the steel-temper cannot have been damaged. the bajo is like brand new new oldstock, and just by looking at it ican tell for sure that this blade has not seen any fire or whatsoever


strange, real strange.........to me the steel feels SO tough, it's like that crappy 420J2-steel they put on cheapo display-swords, you know, Marto and such. it's tough, way tough

i've got no id:confused: :confused: ea what's wrong with the darn thing...........
 
I used wet/dry sandpaper and a mousepad to sharpen the point of mine when metal fatigue set in and blunted it badly, and it was no trouble at all. Could be the file and stones are quickly becoming clogged with steel shavings and limiting their efficiency?
 
dennis75 said:
...to me the steel feels SO tough, it's like that crappy 420J2-steel they put on cheapo display-swords, you know, Marto and such. it's tough, way tough
Click to expand...

Something is really wrong here, you can file those 420J2 knives easily.

-Cliff
 
Some old Soviet bayonets were hard chromed and/or case-hardened. Maybe this is the case with your SIG too. Otherwise bayonets are always made from cheap steels and they are left quite soft.
 
Stg57 bayonets are made of 1.7103 steel.


1.7103 (also known as 67SiCr5) is a low alloy spring steel similar to AISI 9254 with about .67% carbon, 0.4-1.0% chrome and 1.2-1.6% silicon.


AISI 1080 (.8 % plain carbon steel) was used for most of the US M1 – M7 series bayonets.


I’m not sure exactly what bayonets from other countries are made of, but they are most likely going to be mid to high (plain) carbon or low alloy steels.




- Frank
 
IIRC bayonet's were made of softer steel or more brittle steel than knife blades so that they would bend or break under the stress caused by the leverage of the rifle. This was to prevent the rifle barrel from bending. I don't know if that is true or an old wives tale.

the reason your file might not be cutting is that it may be getting clogged with steel from the bayonet edge. they probably are ground to such an obtuse edge angle because they were primarily thrusting weapons.
 
I have some WW2 era chezch and German mauser bayonets that are plain case hardened steel. I also have a pre war one ( forget the manufacturer) that is beautifully milled and blued. Almost mirror like where in good shape. That one would interest me as to what steel. Joe
 
i'm really not sure what's worng with the steel on it. maybe i was wrong about 420J2, i indeed recall that steel being very soft and easy to file up.

what i meant was the kind of steel that CAN NOT and WILL NOT be abrased by hand, no matter what you use.

TOOL steel it is so to speak. like a Chrome-Vanadium Stanley socket-driver. you get the idea. it's tough, real tough

í don't understand it at all. the bayo looks as good as new and is definitely not abused and definitely an original.

very odd........:confused:

denn
 
I could not find my file last night, so I could not test mine. But I know it sharpened easily with sandpaper. Definitely strange.
 
dennis75, assuming it is case hardened, it won't be easily filed, however even fully hard steel will be abraded by stones. However you need a decent one, some of the really cheap hardware stones are not overly effective at removing large amounts of metal however any decent one will easily chew through the steel. But again, if the edges don't meet then you have a lot of work to grind them to shape. I would indeed suggest power equipment on such steel.

-Cliff
 
Probably one of the nicest bayonets ever designed for looks.

Bayonets as a class suck as knives. Not their job. They are spear tips for modern pikes : rifles. They survive thrusting, levering and extraction by being spring steel composition - and hardened to spring steel standards. RC is usually in the 40's.

If your's tests into the mid 50's it could be used as a knife - but not as a bayonet. It would be too brittle - a design flop. Even a bent bayonet is a weapon - not a broken one - and can just be straightened.

Your best option - biting the bullet - is to let it go. A sharpened bayonet is not always percieved positively as bayonets are generally known to be dull military stabbers. A sharpened one will be considered made to increase pain and suffering in legal circles, if that should ever come up. But the real thing is that it is a misapplication of design to use it as a knife.

Even if it's the prettiest one out there.
 
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