speaking of Tool Steels.....Bayonet steel?

They're soft, they just gum off and when you try to sharpen then, you really don't get a crisp edge
 
Cliff Stamp said:
dennis75, assuming it is case hardened, it won't be easily filed, however even fully hard steel will be abraded by stones. However you need a decent one, some of the really cheap hardware stones are not overly effective at removing large amounts of metal however any decent one will easily chew through the steel. But again, if the edges don't meet then you have a lot of work to grind them to shape. I would indeed suggest power equipment on such steel.

-Cliff
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thanks Cliff. yes it's true. it DOES abrse with my coarse stones, but it take FOREVER to get anywhere near anything that resembles an edge. to get an idea, it looks a dull edge of $10 splitting-axe...........well.......

btw Cliff, what is "case hardened" exactly?

denn
 
Bad for sharpening, great for recievers on old lever actions. Sharpening removes the hard layer on the outside exposing the softer core. Cheap files are made this way now. They cannot be reforged to make knife blades because the steel is actually a soft alloy with little intrinsic hardening ability. It's been applied externally in the forge - sometimes in an encased shell packed with charcoal - hence "case hardening." Makes nice coloring like flamed titanium if done for decorative purposes.

On rifle recievers the metal must be left annealed to withstand shock stresses, which they do well. Knives need to be much harder. Bayonets don't.
 
It was a good thing when the alternative was to use knives made out of mild steel, but for modern knives you would be better off in general with a suitable alloy steel.

-Cliff
 
we had garand bayonets in basic training that we all tried to sharpen. they were very soft, they looked like chromed steel, the shine "flaked" off. we used the angles of the steel desk in our room. they got an edge, but not sharp. iirc, one dented when the genius weilding it chopped at the desk leg.

they could have been parade bayonets though, shiny and useless, but IDK
 
well, i dropped mine at my local sharpener shop to have it machined to a double-edged flat V-grind

see how it turns out...
 
I don't mean to offend, dennis75, but you're trying to drink whiskey from a bottle of wine.
 
I've sharpened my AK bayo before. waste of effort. it grinds pretty well on a 100 SiC benchstone. it does get sharp, but doesn't hold the edge.

File yours.
 
tirod3 said:
Probably one of the nicest bayonets ever designed for looks.

Bayonets as a class suck as knives. Not their job. They are spear tips for modern pikes : rifles. They survive thrusting, levering and extraction by being spring steel composition - and hardened to spring steel standards. RC is usually in the 40's.

If your's tests into the mid 50's it could be used as a knife - but not as a bayonet. It would be too brittle - a design flop. Even a bent bayonet is a weapon - not a broken one - and can just be straightened.

Your best option - biting the bullet - is to let it go. A sharpened bayonet is not always percieved positively as bayonets are generally known to be dull military stabbers. A sharpened one will be considered made to increase pain and suffering in legal circles, if that should ever come up. But the real thing is that it is a misapplication of design to use it as a knife.

Even if it's the prettiest one out there.
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I have sharpened a fair share of bayonets and they do take a very good edge; as low alloy steel tends to do. The bigger issue is that many bayonets do not have an edge; they were puposely manufactured without one so that they would be more suitable for training and parade use. The idea was that the supply chain, or troops, could always grind the edge on it in the event of war.

If you start with a factory flat, then use some power tools to get an edge on it. It is hard to sharpen what isn't there to begin with. BTW: check before you start grinding - many bayonets are very collectible, and putting an edge on then can cost you a nice pile of cash.

n2s
 
Redguy said:
Some old Soviet bayonets were hard chromed and/or case-hardened. Maybe this is the case with your SIG too. Otherwise bayonets are always made from cheap steels and they are left quite soft.
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BINGO! These blades are carbon steel plated with some metalic coating. (and it's thick too!) I refinished a blade for a friend and put a new handle on it. It takes forever to rub off. I was using a 180 grit white norton ceramic diemakers polishing hone. It took forever. These hones will remove 220 grit scratches in heat treated tool and stainless steels like it's butter. It took me like 5 or 6 hours to remove all of this coating to get to bare steel.

Once you start to expose the steel you can see the color difference. The coating is silvery white, Like aluminum.

I have no doubt this is part of the original posters sharpening problem. The other problem is the blade geometry. The blade is not an inch wide and it is about .220 thick and double edged. Each bevel is literaly only a little more than twice as wide as it is thick. It literaly has a blade profile like a cold chisel. To make sharpening practical and not take the rest of your life You probably need to sharpen at like a 40° angle. (not a great angle for cutting)
 
I remembered someone on Rec.Knives emailed Victorinox about the blade steel


This is the post


Here is the information I received from Victorinox:
> Thank you for your e-mail.
> The bayonet 57 was produced by Victorinox during the years 1959 to 1972.
> The blade of the bayonet was however not stainless steel, it was made of
> material 1.7103 = 67 Si Cr5.
> The letter "W" was marked on the bayonet blades made by Wenger whilst those
> manufactured by Victorinox carry the letter "V".
> We hope that we have been of service to you.
> Best regards,
> VICTORINOX, Sandra Gehrig
Does anybody know what "1.7103 = 67 Si Cr5" is?
As best I have been able to find out, it is
a steel with 0.67% carbon, 1.3% silicon, and
0.5 % manganese--and nothing else. *What are
the properties of this material with regards
to knives?
*
 
It is similar to the shock steels so expect a high toughness, low wear resistance and little to no corrosion resistance.

-Cliff
 
I don't have a dog in this hunt but it is amazing the knowledge and information that can come out of a relatively obscure post.
 
Ilovetoolsteel said:
BINGO! These blades are carbon steel plated with some metalic coating. (and it's thick too!) I refinished a blade for a friend and put a new handle on it. It takes forever to rub off. I was using a 180 grit white norton ceramic diemakers polishing hone. It took forever. These hones will remove 220 grit scratches in heat treated tool and stainless steels like it's butter. It took me like 5 or 6 hours to remove all of this coating to get to bare steel.

Once you start to expose the steel you can see the color difference. The coating is silvery white, Like aluminum.

I have no doubt this is part of the original posters sharpening problem. The other problem is the blade geometry. The blade is not an inch wide and it is about .220 thick and double edged. Each bevel is literaly only a little more than twice as wide as it is thick. It literaly has a blade profile like a cold chisel. To make sharpening practical and not take the rest of your life You probably need to sharpen at like a 40° angle. (not a great angle for cutting)
Click to expand...

thanks for the toolsteel-dude! that HAS to be it, can't miss. i must admit, the bayo DID look quite shiny, somewhat unnatural
 
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