Spear Point Bowies/Fighters

Starkman1

Starkman1

Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
329
Lately, I've been giving some serious thought to spear point bowies/fighters. I do like the design of the blade as I think it is classic and functional. However, I just don't see very many made. I was curious as to why such a good blade design is seldom used? I'd like to see some photos, or hear any input to advantages/disadvantages of the spear point blade.
Thanks,
Bob
 
Spearpoint blades are among the strongest and oldest of knife point designs. Used through out ancient history for their capacity to confront armor without breaking.

Here's a more recent example and my first FISK:
Handcock-FiskPhotos001.jpg
 
Kevin Jones said:
Spearpoint blades are among the strongest and oldest of knife point designs. Used through out ancient history for their capacity to confront armor without breaking.

Here's a more recent example and my first FISK:
Click to expand...

But it really isn't a spearpoint, Kevin, it has more of a straight spine.

Starkman....they work great, but are not so sexy, and generally, the clip or dagger grind offer great penetration, but loss of strength at the tip. Many makers will offer these as a request, but clip and dagger grinds sell quicker on spec.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Do S-guards count!?
Great for digging grubs from the ends of logs. :D
Picked this up from Steven P. a little while back. :thumbup:

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Beautiful Moran,Jim. :cool:

Doug
 
Kohai999 said:
But it really isn't a spearpoint, Kevin, it has more of a straight spine.
STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

I agree, there are better examples of the pure spearpoint (as the Moran above), however if Jerry calls it his "Spearpoint" model then that's good enough for me. :thumbup: ;) :)
 
I like 'em a lot, but they are definitely not as popular as clip points.

Roger
 
Kohai999 said:
But it really isn't a spearpoint, Kevin, it has more of a straight spine.

Starkman....they work great, but are not so sexy, and generally, the clip or dagger grind offer great penetration, but loss of strength at the tip. Many makers will offer these as a request, but clip and dagger grinds sell quicker on spec.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

I tend to agree that they don't have those sexy curves you often find in clip points. And as you (STeven) and Roger pointed out, are not quite as popular. I do like the Fisk spear point, and the Moran looks more like the San Francisco style knife.

What originally sparked my interest in the spear point blade is the straighter, coffin type handle designs often associated with them. I'm not sure if that style handle is the best choice for a clip point bowie. Drop handles seem to look best with that style bowie. I've seen many clip point blades with straight handles (like a Sheffield bowie), but from a balance standpoint, not sure if that is the best choice.

It's refreshing to know that others do appreciate that style blade.
Thanks,
Bob
 
Spear point with a coffin handle! Man is that awesome. I would love to have a 5" blade and a coffin handle.
 
Spearpoints are the oldest patterns of blades because early man could chip those out of stone and get that shape. There are spearpoint designs the same as dagger tips in that you have a full point, quarter point, half point, and 3/4 spearpoints. These various points go through history.
Jerry calls his spearpoint shown above a 3/4 spearpoint meaning it goes 3/4 back of the way to the guard, a full point basically just has a nose on it. Most of what people see and call spear points are 1/4 points however you can gauge them.
Generally the points were on center but not always. Some of the antique spearpoints were sometimes raised a bit as Jerry does with most of his military type points (below). He's done a few on center ones but most are as pictured above. Jerry's a good teacher as well as good maker and businessman.

Handcock-FiskPhotos002.jpg
 
Kevin,
Just curious how that Fisk spear point feels compared to a drop handled/clip point knife of the same size? Is there much of difference in balance and function if the point is on/off center?
Bob
 
Bob, if you do not mind me kicking in a bit.
The point being on center gives you point point control for sticking something, small bugs etc, when you first get it. Like a long bow knives sometimes have their own particulars. Once you get used to the knife you can use the point fine be it high, low or center but at first the center is best this is on a knife. A center point on a spear works better because it would move the long handle by its being off center, if that makes sense.

You will get the balance not so much by the center movement though that will effect just a tad due to more metal being removed to the center but balance would be changed more by what type of point, full, 1/4, etc etc. That why I use the 3/4 point more often. You can still put them on center but on a 3/4 point I always felt I had a bit more funcion with the tip slightly rasied due to it gave me a bit more belly. I probally muddied the waters a bit with the explanation.
 
Jerry's explanation above adds much validity to the mindset that custom knives are not just designed to be "pretty". Much thought in regard to function and performance go into all components to ensure the piece is more than just a pretty "art object" to hang on a wall.
 
Jerry, your comments are most certainly welcomed. If I understand correctly, spear points were perhaps derived from a dagger (weapon) to accommodate more cutting duties? For some reason or another, I have taken a liking to stag coffin handles and spear point blades...don't know why....maybe just because you don;t see many. From a makers standpoint, what are your opinions on that style blade and handle?
Thanks,
Bob
 
Here's a D'Holder Bowie Fighter Custom made to an order in 1976.

It's massive!

13 1/2" 0verall, 3/8" ATS-34 stock, 2" wide. Brass Guard and compound contoured Brass Cap. File worked. Sharpened top clip.

It feels awesome in hand.

Del
www.dknifeplace.com

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Bob, in my opinion you gotta be careful with coffin handles. they can be awkard and uncomfortable to the hand if not done up right but they can work fine.
The straighter the handle the more speed you get, the more drop in the handle you sacrafice speed for more power with the swing so you can figure how much you want of which with the handle design. Now, the coffin handle is straight, a spear point for the basics is straight you are just moving the point up or down. So, for me, you would be getting a very quick blade for swing with that combination of handle and blade. The rub comes in with using the right blade length to do what you intend. Another thing that really comes into play with the coffin handle. Traditionaly they had shorter hands at the time the older bowies had coffin handles on them so when we stretch out the handle length to better suit us it sometimes can get "off" on the look or feel. The antique Chevaia bowie, and I know I did not spell that right, was a real interesting coffin handle in the it used a frame handle with a side bar in the center attaching to the frame. This allowed the maker to use smaller pieces of handle material yet strengthened up the handle. I made a few of those years ago to learn how to. With that one I have used Ivory, MOP, wood and stag or any two combinations of materials used.
 
Here are a couple or so examples of some spear points that I own.

First is by Bob Papp and would be considered a Spear Point Fighter

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Next is by a retired Canadian maker Fritz Clauer

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and lastly a most recent knife by Rodrigo Sfreedo -- California Price Style but a spearpoint never the less

orig.jpg
 
Bob,
This part of knife design is the part that I find most fascinating. I draw a straight line on my drawing paper and build the knife around that line. The closer the tip, center of ricasso, and efective center of the butt of the knife are to being on this line, the closer to a dagger you get. I believe the spearpoint is a more funtional variation of a dagger. I say funtional, because you can not only poke, but you can slash with it. The triangular cross section of the blade adds more weight to the slash than the diamond shape of the dagger.

Scroll down through the pictures and notice this. Usually when the tip is dropped or raised from the ricasso's centerline, the handle butt is dropped OR the handle shape is swelled downward most of the time. This gives control and prevents roll over in your hand.
Lin
 
Bob,
I hope this make sense. I dont know the technical way to expres this, but there are ratios of shape as well as size that are more visually appealing to the eye. Without thinking specifically about this we just "know" we like a knife. It's the one that caught our eye as we walk passed.
If a maker gets the relationship of tip hieght to handle hieght off, it looks bad. In my opinion, a knife with a coffin handle whose blade tip is either high or low, by much, off centerline, looks bad. It also, IMO, funtions poorly. It goes back to "form follows funtion". If it is designed to work, it usually also looks good.

Thinking too early, Lin

PS: If you wake up early, you can post twice in a row.
 
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