Specific criteria: Stainless liner lock or Stainless insert on the lock bar (?)

Discussion in 'Kizer Cutlery' started by OmarShablotnik, Jul 24, 2015.

  1. OmarShablotnik

    OmarShablotnik

    222
    Apr 21, 2015
    Hello,

    I too would like to try out a few more Kizer knives. I have one, but it's a lower end model and it's "ok" at best.

    My biggest pet peeve with any knife is the use of titanium locks. I really don't like it, really don't trust it, and I really have no desire to debate or discuss that. LOL

    Let's just call that background information. :)

    SO

    I've searched through the Kizer catalog and think I saw a pair of thumb-stud frame lock folders (non flippers) with lock bar inserts.

    Am I missing any? (this is the basic question I'm after with this thread)

    I'm pretty certain that all of the liner lock models use Ti (rather than steel) so I'm assuming there aren't any of those - but how about models with lock bar inserts?

    If there are any specific models that are about to be released, let me know. I think there's at least one.

    Thanks!
     
  2. brancron

    brancron Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 14, 2011
    I don't have an answer for you, but I've got to ask, for my own amusement, despite your desire not to debate or discuss it: whence your lack of "trust" in titanium?
     
  3. OmarShablotnik

    OmarShablotnik

    222
    Apr 21, 2015
    I bought an Emerson Sheepdog Bowie flipper brand new from a dealer. The lock was sticky as hell, so I flipped it. A lot. In an attempt to break it in. Which was cool, because (other than the lock) the action was so smooth and addicting and I was in love with the thing.

    For 2 days.

    Because that's when the lock finally wore all the way across the back of the blade tang and bottomed out on the opposite liner.

    I returned the knife for a refund.


    ---

    I have a Kizer with a Ti linerlock. The lockup is in a fine spot in terms of left-to-right ("early" vs "late") - but if I grab the blade and give it a good wriggle to check for play and lock rock, I get lock rock. I do this while inspecting, and it's actually moving a bit where the lock bar seats on the tang of the blade and I can feel flexing in the lock bar itself.

    ---

    I have another with a Ti Framelock. The lock isn't sticky but it moves to the right every time I get the blade out for its day in the rotation.

    ----


    In short:

    Knifemakers use Titanium because the buying public has a misinformed and overhyped sense of reality that Ti is superior to steel. It has its place, but that place isn't in a high wear/high impact wear point. It is a POOR choice of material for a lockup. Not just inferior. POOR. And just because there are more people making bad choices from knifemakers who only want to sell their wares will not sway me to purchase another knife with a titanium lock bar. Ever. (why don't we have Ti blades? Those are steel. Think about it.)

    Don't even get me started on Strider, CRK, et al. They wanna sell knives. "Hey! It's TITANIUM!!" :jerkit:
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2015
  4. OmarShablotnik

    OmarShablotnik

    222
    Apr 21, 2015
    so... LOL... back to the question at hand.

    Kizer models with steel lock bar inserts (or, one with a steel liner lock, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist)

    Current or soon-to-be.

    Thanks.
     
  5. el_duderino04

    el_duderino04 Gold Member Gold Member

    189
    Jul 27, 2009
    I believe the upcoming Gemini (formerly the "Fortunado"), the Laconico collaboration, will have a stainless steel lock insert.

    I largely agree with you on the perhaps misguided use of titanium on the lock face. I will mention, however, that in my experience carbidization of the Ti lock surface does alleviate many of the downsides (though is not as permanent a solution as a stainless steel insert). Do you have a different experience?
     
  6. OmarShablotnik

    OmarShablotnik

    222
    Apr 21, 2015
    No, I don't have a different experience. However, carbidization just seems like a "band aid" to me. There are plenty of choices out there that get it right. ZT knives are an obvious example that I can think of off hand. Jason Brous DEFINITELY gets it right. Take his newest/latest "flagship" model - the Exo. The handles are full Ti with a liner lock - and he milled out the lock side and put in a *hardened stainless* liner for the lock. Well done. Frankly, my hat is off to JB.

    As a craftsman myself - just not with steel and metal and knives - I fully appreciate design philosophy and execution. We can sit here all day and look up and provide examples of GORGEOUS custom knives that fetch high prices that have beautiful actions and exquisite fit and finish - but with Ti lock ups. From my perspective, I genuinely think this is either a) lazy; b) playing to the "market"; or c) both. {This is just, of course, my opinion. Your mileage may vary and all of those caveats.}

    I think it's great to see a company like Kizer bringing some fresh designs to the market at an attractive price point. Several of their designs I find very, very attractive and would own them in a heartbeat if the lock had an insert or was otherwise made of steel. Hence my search for Kizers that either already have that kind of lockup or ones that will.
     
  7. Kizer Cutlery

    Kizer Cutlery Follow our Instagram: kizercutlery_inc Moderator

    496
    Jun 24, 2013
    There are definitely choices out there from Kizer (including some still in the prototype stage), I will get and post some information asap.

    thanks.
     
  8. OmarShablotnik

    OmarShablotnik

    222
    Apr 21, 2015
    :eagerness:

    Looking forward to it!
     
  9. OmarShablotnik

    OmarShablotnik

    222
    Apr 21, 2015
    Just saw a video "preview" of the new "value" line - will those have stainless or Ti liners?
     
  10. Kizer Cutlery

    Kizer Cutlery Follow our Instagram: kizercutlery_inc Moderator

    496
    Jun 24, 2013
    The V-series standard models will have stainless liners, depending on production series, there will be some that are different.

    I'm near completion on the list of the knives for the thread topic and hope to have it uploaded by the weekend. Sorry for the delay.
     
  11. Kizer Cutlery

    Kizer Cutlery Follow our Instagram: kizercutlery_inc Moderator

    496
    Jun 24, 2013
  12. austonh

    austonh Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 26, 2012
    Nice! Lots of new models in there!
     
  13. OmarShablotnik

    OmarShablotnik

    222
    Apr 21, 2015
    very cool, very cool indeed! Thanks!

    It looks like the "bolt" is the only one widely available at the moment - have any of the new production Dorados and/or Flashbangs made it out to the distributors yet?

    Any time frames on any of the other models listed?
     

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