Spent a few hours with the Sharpmaked and my ZDP Horn (Inspired by Cliff)

me2 said:
Byrd knives are very attractive for the price. What hardness do they use?
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http://spyderco.com/forums/showpost.php?p=139259&postcount=37

Interesting comments on the Benchmade AUS-8A, that is exactly what you would expect.

I rarely use the corners anymore due to the burr issue.
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Yes, on a related note, the flat "steels" often recieved high praise over the traditional round/oval ones and I wonder if this wasn't just a burr issue.

Lately I have switched to very, and I mean very, light honing to minimize burr formation and it doesn't require any high angles or other complications, but it takes a lot of passes, even on 52100 and it would be likely unproductive on S30V and similar.

For example, take the knife down to about 20% of optimal sharpness, cut the edge off with 1-2 passes into the Spyderco medium, about 10-20 passes per side on DMT x-coarse (this removes all visible damage to the edge), then 20-40 on DMT fine, then 40-60 on spyderco medium, then the same on fine and ultra fine.

This produces edges which are 50-55 on light thread and are in the range of 2.5" on newsprint. I still don't think this is optimal because the knife is too soft, < 60 HRC. I think optimally I could cut that in half.

This is also without microbevels simply for testing purposes, with micro-bevels the number of passes goes way down because it scales with the bevel width. It does have me curious however what finish would be produced with a Shapton 30 k or similiar.

-Cliff
 
Sounds like a winner. Any experience with the FRN handles, or have you just done tests on the SS ones. I was thinking of getting 2, one for me and one for my brother. The cara cara sounds the best to me. Not to hijack the thread, but all this wonderful cutting ability with Spyderco's and I keep selling or giving them away. Oh well, something to try again.
 
I have used the FRN ones, I tend to prefer them simply because they are lighter. But they are also nicer in temperature extremes and more ergonomic/secure in hand. Some people like the weight of the stainless though.

-Cliff
 
I like my G 10 cara cara a lot, I've been keeeping it in my pocket almost every day. It is very secure in the hand but weighs about the same as the stainless model. I'm getting more impressed with the knife the more I use it, it is really a great bargain, and the steel is very impressive.
 
me2 said:
Does it have metal liners, or just the G10?
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It has rather thick metal liners. It is built like a tank, very solid feeling. I'd be interested to see where it falls in Spyderco's lock rating system, I would think heavy duty. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has had them apart if the lockup is similar to "real" Spyderco's.
 
As an update, my Jess Horn looks almost exactly like Cliff's picture of his Jess Horn now, except completely flat ground by the choil on both sides. It turns out I did a bit more convexing than I thought when I brought the finish to the edge. I used my DMT X coarse and got rid of the convexing and microbevel, and now it's hard to tell it was ever a hollow ground knife. I'm calling Tom Krein tomorrow to discuss him putting a nice hollow back into the blade to ease my sharpening and thin the knife out even more.
 
Yeah, that is how you want to proceed on those knives. Often then are flat or convex ground often because of the idea that hollow grounds don't cut well when in fact is all that is done is convert a thick grind into a thin one. Juranitch used to hollow the edges on knives to increase cutting ability and ease of sharpening, Johnston and Krein can take this to another level. You can also do it by hand with benchstones, but I doubt even Thom has the patience for it.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, I talked to Krein this morning and he will do the job for me. I'm thinking of asking him to go as thin as possible, but I was wondering if you thought the ZDP could handle an edge as thin as your mod U2. Because of the Sabre grind I can't go that thin anyway, but I figure I may as well ask him to make it as thin as possible. I don't want to ruin the knife, do you think because of the Sabre grind he wouldn't be able to make it thin enough to where the steel will crumble? I guess if I tell him to go as thin as possible and it starts to crumble at least we'll learn how thin we can't go with ZDP.
 
If you are willing to wait a bit, I'll send you my Horn with the U2 and you can have that reground as a limit check. I'll reimburse you for the cost, just return it to me when you are finished with it. There are no rigid time constraints so you can EDC it for at least a year or so. Krein can do the hollow full if desired, there is no need to stay with the sabre grind. I'd full flat as a reference and then hollow it, but he can likely do that directly in one step.

-Cliff
 
Sounds good, Cliff. I can wait a little while. Sounds like a good idea to eliminate the sabre and just go with the full hollow. If you're going thin, why not push it to the limit, right? I will try to discuss this with Krein and get his input as well. Don't worry about the costs, I'll cover it. I really appreciate the opportunity to test the knives. Just to clarify, you want me to have him bring yours all the way up with the hollow, and if it doesn't take to it well, then just have him back off a bit when he hollows mine out. I am hoping they can both handle it and that we can get a edge bevel in the 4 degree range. If that is possible it would be real interesting to see you run the cardboard cutting test between the U2 and the Horn again, to see if the ZDP will outperform the SGPS with the same geometry. I will definately run my own real world tests, unfortunately it won't be nearly as scientific as what you can do. I do want to get myself a cheap spring scale and some thread so I can get some repeatable, accurate feedback on my sharpening and edge retention, as opposed to just checking with newsprint and shaving.
 
gunmike1 said:
Just to clarify, you want me to have him bring yours all the way up with the hollow, and if it doesn't take to it well, then just have him back off a bit when he hollows mine out.
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Yes, essentially have this one ground to a limit and then you can see where that is in terms of scope of work and use that to refine the next alteration. I'll include several yards of the thread and cord I use so you can have them as reference benchmarks as well.

-Cliff
 
updated pics






As you can see, I have flattened it out considerably since I got my DMT X coarse when I removed all convexing and all hints of the first microbevel I applied, it is totally flat ground now except by the tip. I used my DMT fine to refine it, and then used my Sharpmaker as 15 degree training wheels to add a 15 degree microbevel with the DMT fine, then the Spyderco medium and fine benchstones. I had much less burring (hardly any, really) with the Spyderco benchstones and their larger contact area than I could get with the standard rods. It can pushcut newsprint about 2.25" to 2.5" from the point of hold, and shaves like a champ. It seems to still have good aggressiveness, too. That's the sharpest I have got a blade so far, now to the EDC fun and cutting. The tip pierces so easy it's scary. I'm sure it would snap off incredibly easy also, but I don't plan on doing hard stabbing with it anyway. I look forward to testing it vs. Cliff's knives, and some of my others like my Native (which would seem like an obvious S30V competitor when reprofiled) and getting it even thinner thanks to Tom Krein.
 
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