Spent the afternoon w/ Sal

T

Trihonda

Joined
Aug 21, 2006
Messages
113
Ok, just got my new Manix and Sharpmaker in the mail today. I'll write a review and post some pics of the Manix when I get more time. However, my initial impressions are I love this knife.

So, onto the sharpmaker. I watched the DVD this afternoon. It's nice to see Sal, and put a face to the name. Anyway, I had my dull set of high-end Chicago Cultlery kitchen knives in front of me as I watched the DVD all the way through. Then, I re-watched it, pausing at the sections that discuss the sharpening specifics. I tried to sharpen my knives, just like Sal said.. However, I didn't have the same success Sal seemed to have. On ordering this system, and reading reviews, I had delusions of being able to maintain a razor sharp fleet of knives and kitchen utensils...

Sal made it seem so effortless, swish, bam, boom, the knives are sharp. I think he actually said make 20 passes with each stone, etc.. and his knives were razor sharp. I couldn't even get my knives sharp enough to cut arm hair, even though Sal could manage this without even going to the fine rods... I have done searches on this, and know its about maintaining a consitant angle, etc... Am I just retarded, or does this get easier? Also, I noticed my blade tips are pretty dull after I get done. Anyway, I even made ~40 passes with the knives on each rod, but does it take even more than that? Sheesh. Sign me, frustrated knife sharpener. :(
 
If the existing angle on the blade is greater than the Sharpmaker rods it can take awhile, much more than 100 passes per side. A x-coarse hone can be of significant benefit in reducing this angle to allow sharpening on the Sharpmaker in a sane amount of time. The blunting of tips is a common problem. It comes from not having the tip perpendicular to the stone at the end of the stroke.

-Cliff
 
First of all, NEVER DRAG THE TIP OFF THE RODS! That seems to be the most common cause of tip rounding.
Second, I have seen a lot of kitchen knives that had no secondary bevel left, much less a primary microbevel. I have not seen the Sharpmaker video, but I seriously doubt Sal started with butter knife sharp blades. I have had to spend half an hour on a medium DMT Diamond hone to put a bevel on some of the kitchen knives I have sharpened, and that thing will take off steel a LOT faster than a Sharpmaker. I have read a lot of tips on the forums for reprofiling with the Sharpmaker, and frankly, they all sound like a PITA to me, but run a search for "sharpmaker + reprofile" here and on the Spyderco forum and see what they do for you.
Good luck, and never say die!
 
The diagram below illustrates a common problem when sharpening with a sharpmaker (as described by Cliff's reply). The blue blade will be sharp after just a reasonable number of strokes. Note how the blade's cutting edge actually contacts the ceramic hone.

However, the red blade will take for ever to sharpen because the entire bevel must be reprofiled before the cutting edge is ever touched by the hone. The sharpmaker hones are not coarse enough to do this quickly. The best plan for the red blade it to reprofile the bevel on a very coarse stone so that it looks more like the blue blade. Then the sharpmaker's fixed angle hones will actually be able to contact the edge.

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Has anyone used the Spyderco diamond triangles to do any reprofiling work? I'd like to have them, but I'd have to sell a knife to afford 'em!

From the description in the Spyderco catalog, they sound like what is needed for those kitchen knives, plus they are designed to work with the Sharpmaker.
 
Just like other people said already: The blades are either too far gone or have an edge that is more than 20 deg. per side in which case you will spend a loooong time on the Sharpmaker. That new Manix on the other hand, you will be able to maintain easily as sharp as it came with very little effort (just as Sal shows) with the Sharpmaker. The problem is often that people want to practice with some cheap or old knives and often have problems. If you try the Sharpmaker on a reasonably new Spyderco it really works like everybody says. That is because Spyderco puts some effort into giving the customer somthing that is easy to work with. A simple SAK is also always a good practice knife.
 
My Renegade is a little dull, can't cut arm hairs anymore... So, I'll have to give it a try.. "like Sal says".

Anyway, I'm not sure of the bevel of the Chicago Cutlery kitchen/chefs knife, but it's not an overly dull knife, just not razor sharp. I'm sure the blade probably needs re-profiling. I'll try my hand at it, but yikes, my arm was getting sore. It's much more sharp now, but just not as sharp as my arm-hair shaving, razor sharp spydies. Am I expecting too much?
:p
 
the steel is your spydies are more then likely alot better then the steel in your kitchen knives .
 
Just had another whack at my chef's knife. I am thinking it way harder steel than I first thought. I got it to have a burr, but for th elife of me, couldn't get the burr to go away without 10 minutes of grinding it out. Seems way too much, just to file off the burr. It seems like a lot of work to get any changes to the steel... Well, I got it sharp, just can't get it as sharp as my spydies. I'd think a Chef's knife would take a razor sharp edge... I must need more practice. Though, I'm noticing my technique improving with repetition. Thanks for all the awesome advise.
 
I think that it does take practice. I had the same problems as you did when I first got it. Now I can get knives very sharp with it. Even cutting paper will dull knives a lot faster than you might believe. I'm constantly cutting paper into strips when I watch TV and three or four strokes on the white rods as soon as the start to rip the paper gets them sharp again, The dense softer steels will take a really sharp edge. They just don't hold it as long. I ordered the diamond rods from Cutlery Shoppe and the owner called me to tell me that they were on back order. Since I didn't want to wait, he cacelled my order and credited my AMEX immediatly. He was a real gentleman about it. I then ordered from TheBladeShop. After waiting for more than two weeks for it to arrive, i finally called. The guy seems uniterested in my situation and said "They are on back order until early this week" . I asked him to let me know when they arrived and to ship the some way other tha Pony Express. I explained the Cutlery Shoppe told me that they would be back ordered from Spyderco for several months. This guy said I don't know what kind of relationship they have with Spyderco but he was getting them early this week. He was kind of rude about it when I spoke to him in the middle of last week. I haven't heard from him by email or phone so far this week. My card has been charged. I guess I'll have to call him again tomorrow. Monday was a holiday so I'll accept that, but it will be my last purchase from him unless his attitude improves dramatically. I'll keep you posted.
 
CombatGrappler said:
Has anyone used the Spyderco diamond triangles to do any reprofiling work? I'd like to have them, but I'd have to sell a knife to afford 'em!

From the description in the Spyderco catalog, they sound like what is needed for those kitchen knives, plus they are designed to work with the Sharpmaker.
Click to expand...

They work much better than the medium hones, but an extra coarse benchstone would still be faster. You have to be careful not to use too much pressure, because that can wear the hones out very quickly.
 
I like the sharpmaker diamond hones. There is no temptation to use too much pressure if you are experienced in sharpmaker use. (for me, at least).
 
I have an Emerson Commander that I couldn't get good and sharp for some reason.

After deciding to buy a fully serrated PM I decided to get the Spyderco Sharpmaker at the same time. Up to that point I had been using a Lansky set of crock sticks. However, I wanted a kit to sharpen serrated knives as well.

Boy, was that a smart decision! My Emerson is now good and sharp and I can keep all my knives hair-poppin' sharp, whether they are plain edge or serrated, thanks to this kit.

The trick is to maintain them constantly. If you keep a good edge on your knives and touch them up once in a while, you will always have sharp knives on hand. If you let them go, they are that much harder to sharpen when the time comes.

It's a great kit, and the video that comes with it is a great added value.
The best knives in the world ain't worth a damn unless you've got a good sharpening kit to keep 'em sharp.
 
One of my lines in the "old days" was;

"Happiness with the knife will be found in the sharpener"

sal
 
Sal, it was a pleasure spending the afternoon with you. I wish it hadn't taken me so long, but that will happen with re-profiling (so I'm told). Anyway, the 204 worked mazingly well (very quickly) in sharpening an older Renegade of mine. Back to razor sharp in just a few strokes! Wow! 30 secs to razor sharp, vs 2 hours spent getting a sorta sharp kitchen knife. Maybe I'll stick to sharpening my nice spydies from now on, and let the kit knives go dull (and buy new ones when they do). :)
 
I didn't get an email or call from "thebladeshop". I get the feeling that if I don't call, I won't hear from him.
Click to expand...
I called today and left a message on "thebladeshop" tape. Of course, he has not called back.
Sal,
Are you aware if they are on backorder for several months as the fist guy told me or this guy going to get them? I'm disgusted!
Jim
 
A quick way to reprofile with the sharpmaker is to wrap the rods with sandpaper (rough side out;) ). You still have the basic angles, but the coarse grit of the paper makes reprofiling easy. A single sheet goes a long way.

Guy
 
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