Spine whacking pt2

Discussion in 'Round Eye Knife & Tool Forum' started by Troy Webber, Nov 14, 2001.

  1. Troy Webber

    Troy Webber Banned BANNED

    121
    Mar 31, 2001
    Ken Cook-nice restraint on the lock button buddy!IMO your pal Don was stirring the pot up pretty good.Pretty easy to win an argument when you can shut it down at will.Oh well,I guess buds stick together...

    Anyway I thought the last thread was going good until Don ,Gator and Ken threw it into a tailspin so I decided to keep it going.
    in my opinion I think the spinewhack is not abusive under normal circumstances.Dont put the blade in a vice and beat it with a hammer.
    These folders are designed to be heavy duty combat tools.Why should cracking the spine on a desktop ruin the lock on a combat folder?
    my fingers are very important to me and I expect a lock not to fold up unless I release the lock.If a company can't consistently produce such a lock then they should not be marketing knives as combat anything.I have a CQC-7 linerlock here right now and I have been beating the spine on a maple cutting board.There are about 100 dents on the edge of the board and the knife is fine.I dont think this is abuse.The lock bar is right where it was.Am I surprised?No.The lock geometry is spot-on on this particular knife.It always was.Do I trust this lock.No way!It is still a linerlock and I only carry axis lock 710s.I still give the axis a good whack every now and again.It never seems to have a problem.I work with my hands and cant afford finger damage from a knife folding up on me.To all you non whackers-you have my blessing.I could care less what you do with your own fingers.
    troy
     
  2. Ken Cook

    Ken Cook

    Feb 19, 1999
    Troy,
    Thanks so much for the sarcasm, that's always the best way to let me know you're sincerely interested in the topic at hand. (See? I can do it too!)

    I locked the thread exactly for the reasons stated, and I did not "win an argument" I refused to engage in one. There's a subtle difference.

    As to Spine Whacking, as I said much earlier in the previous thread, the people who want to spine whack will keep doing it no matter what I say, and that's fine with me, it's not my knife.

    I really don't feel there's any need for me to comment further on the topic, I've said about all I have to say on the subject and I don't believe there's any reason to keep pounding the pulpit.

    If you're interested though, there is a thread on the same topic going on in the General Forum at the moment;
    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177077

    Check it out.
    As a matter of fact, "my buddy" Don Rearic placed an excellent post and I don't believe I could say it any better or more clearly than he did.

    Spine whack or not, your knives, your choice.
     
  3. Troy Webber

    Troy Webber Banned BANNED

    121
    Mar 31, 2001
    Sorry to be so sarcastic.I just thought it was a little unfair to lock the thread and blame it all on Gator(however obtuse he may be)When you had brought it off topic somewhat. ie."I beat up a MA instuctor with no MA training".And then Don all but calling Gator a retard.Stuff like that tends to make me a little sarcastic.Whatever...
    troy
     
  4. teacher

    teacher

    Apr 11, 2001
    :)
     
  5. Keith Montgomery

    Keith Montgomery

    May 9, 2000
    Troy, as I have stated many times before, it is totally up to you if you want to spine whack your knives. If you feel that it is something a knife of yours has to be able to survive, then so be it. If you damage a knife from doing this it is also the right of the maker of that knife to tell you that you have to pay to get it fixed. If you are willing to accept that this might happen and do not plan on demanding warranty repair for what you did, then go ahead and spine whack to your hearts content. What bothers me is that so many people seem to think that they have the right to do this to their knives and that if they damage the knife it should be up to the maker to cover all the costs of repair.

    Let's say a company advertises that they have a tough break resistant glass window. Someone in the past has come up with a test to determine if these types of windows will stand up. That test is that you use a small ball peen hammer and hit the window with a certain amount of force and windows like this should withstand this hit. How does the company warranty their windows to withstand this test. Did the person use a hammer that was within the size limits given? Did he hit the window with no more force than is allowed? How does the company make this detemination?

    If the knife failed because of a faulty lock the repair should be done under warranty. If it failed because the lock was damaged by the owner then he should have to pay the repairs. If the maker is nice enough to fix the knife and not charge for it then say thank you. If he requires that you pay for the repair, do so and understand that you caused the damage and refrain from flaming the maker.
     
  6. TomMarker

    TomMarker

    828
    Feb 22, 1999
    Christ on a cracker..

    REKAT has said they consider spine whacking abuse. That's their call whether you agree with it or not. If that bugs you, give them a million bucks and buy the company from them and change company policy.

    Or keep buying the knives and whack them with glee. You know what you've gotten into now.

    Should they have been more clear at the beginning? Maybe. Obviously "abuse" is more a grey area than they thought. And now we've all learned something.

    Besides, whacking makes you go blind.
     
  7. Gator97

    Gator97 Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 10, 2000
    I locked the thread exactly for the reasons stated, and I did not "win an argument" I refused to engage in one.
    Yeah, right :) And that's why you posted page long reply blaming me.
     
  8. Keith Montgomery

    Keith Montgomery

    May 9, 2000
    This thread is in danger of degenerating into another useless bunch of personal attacks. I would love to know what everyone thinks about the topic of this thread. What anybody happens to think personally of Ken, Don or Gator, including what they think of each other, is of no interest to me at all.

    Do the members of Bladeforums think that the spine whack test is a valid test, and why or why not? Also do you think that if the test is done and it damages the knife should the maker of the knife cover the costs of repairs and once again why or why not?

    There have been some excellent thoughts on this subject so far and I would be very interested in what others have think of this topic.
     
  9. Safety Guy

    Safety Guy

    Mar 9, 2001
    Whacking with your palms is okay. I haven't gone blind yet, and my knives are still with me, locking up tight! :D Everything in moderation.

    Anyways, those who say they don't do it probably do, in the dark of night when no one's around! :p

    Furtively,

    Karl
     
  10. Ken Cook

    Ken Cook

    Feb 19, 1999
    Gator97,
    If you have anything further to say to me, or if you would like any sort of feedback from me, address your points to me in email.

    Your attempt to hijack yet another thread for the sake of your petty desire to "feud" is unacceptable. This is why I normally try very hard to avoid any contact with you.

    Continued efforts to derail the discussion will only serve to get this thread locked also.

    Keep your comments on topic.
    The topic is Spine Whack Testing.

    Out.
     
  11. Don Rearic

    Don Rearic

    Oct 8, 1998
    I think striking the spine on the palm of the off hand could be an industry standard if the "Pounders" would accept it, which they won't.

    How hard can someone strike the spine on the palm of their other hand? Hard enough to test what they want tested if they are reasonable about it. And if the lock fails that, sure, send it back.

    If the Manufacturer/Maker sees one bit of evidence that the knife was struck against a hard object, they should contact you by E-mail, Snail Mail, Phone or FAX and ask you how that happened. If you said it was an accident...then it is their decision to fix it or not.

    If you said you were testing their knife by smacking a table with it, they should quote you the price to fix it, or, if you do not want to pay for having it fixed, they should tell you how much you need to send so they can ship your knife back to you in the same condition you sent it to them in.

    I'm sort of floored that people are promoting abuse in the form of a test. There is no standard for the test, people cite a Spyderco and a Cold Steel Video, both of which are entirely different AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM. The Spyderco Dealer Video, that's a tap, the Cold Steel Video is a smack, in my opinion. I have them both.

    At the end of the day, thousands more words will be typed, and people will go on smacking the piss out of their knives and some how feel better because they did it. Some will send their knives back to the Company/Person that made them, and they will complain because the knife failed their non-scientific testing in the living room and will demand Justice.

    And so it will go.

    I'm sort of amused, there has to be a degree of faith in almost anything mechanical.

    You buy a new car...there are so many things that could be loose and kill you and your family...yet...people hop in them, pay their $300.00 monthly for five years...so it goes.
     
  12. Tonie

    Tonie

    111
    Jul 20, 2000
    I think it's pretty obvious that the Rolling Lock is not performing as consistently as REKAT thought it should. I'm not interested in blaming or name calling, I'm just curious if these failures have led them into investigating the situation?

    I still wonder what degree of spinewhacking is considered abuse by REKAT. I mean after all, before that last thread degenerated so badly, I had posted how Bob Taylor used that very test to tell me my Sifu was in perfect shape. You could hear the hammering in the background of my phone message.

    The Sifu originally folded up on me when I performed a VERY light back cut with the point on my carpeted cutting dummy. I immediately called REKAT and talked with Bob T. personally and he expressed total amazement over the incident. He told me that he thought that there shouldn't be any problem doing a backcut with the Sifu. When I sent the knife back at Bob's request, I can't fault these boys about being willing to work with you, I enclosed a letter explaining exactly what happened.

    My only disappointment in all this was that my particular Sifu never got over folding up when the point was tapped on the palm of my hand. There was absolutely no roughness in the action, it was smooth as glass right from the box. If they ever overcome that particular problem I would be standing in line to get another one.
     
  13. Troy Webber

    Troy Webber Banned BANNED

    121
    Mar 31, 2001
    Tonie this is exactly why I wanted this thread to keep going.If REKAT is going to close this forum I think the parting subject should involve lock reliability.This is an issue I have not seen fully explained in regard to the Rolling lock.I would also love to own a SIFU if I felt comfortable that the lock issues have been resolved.
    Don I just dont see how hitting the back of a combat folder could destroy the lock or the knife.I have been whacking my cqc-7 on the cutting board and since last night I have probably given the lock over 1000 hard whacks.The entire edge if the cutting board is chewed up and the knife locks up just like it always has.I just dont see where the damage can occur.The lock geometry is right on this knife .The tang engages the liner fully with no gaps.The liner is a titanium leaf spring-the energy from the whacks on a properly fitted liner should be absorbed by the spring.I think waving a Commander open against the fixed stop pin is much more abusive to a knife than any kind of spinewhacking short of what Steve Harvey does.It just has not been my experience that this damages or loosenes a knife.
    On a side note:I was fixing my car the other day and rounded off a nut.I could not get a bite on it so I did what I always do when this happens.I grabbed my trusty $7.99 small visegrip pliers,locked them on to the nut with so muck pressure I was sure the pliers would self -destruct.I then grabbed my 20 oz. Estwing hammer and beat on the back of the handle of the ViseGrip until the nut loosened.The pliers never came unlocked and when I pressed on the release lever the pliers released just as designed.I have done this many times with this pair of vise grips.I got the pliers from my dad who also had done this many times with the same pair.(thats where I learned this trick.Other than cosmetics the pliers function fine.I realize that it is comparing apples to oranges,but should I expect less performance from a folder designed for combat.Should a hard rap on a table with the spine of a knife really destroy a hard use ,properly designed and executed folder lock?
    Like I said before:it's your fingers- not my problem.

    for the record: a year ago I was in the anti-whacking camp...
    dedicated whacker #034,
    troy
     
  14. Leo Daher

    Leo Daher

    967
    Jan 19, 1999
    LOL! That was hella funny! :D
     

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