Spyderco Assisted Open Knives?

Thomas W said:
Sorry for the confusion, I am a bit of a simpleton.

When you mention that you do not "begrudge Sal's decision not to make AO knives for the general public", I thought you said it from the context of AO's being confused as illegal. Therefore, Spyderco shouldn't manufacture them.

Hope that makes sense. :)
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Understood and no problem. And, for the record, I'm a huge fan of Kershaw knives and like the fact that they (and other makers) provide a wide range of knives to choose from. I'd just like some clarification about the legal status of my Volt II, Tremor, Blur and Blackout while carrying them in NJ -- though I likely won't get it, since there's very little case law interpreting the applicable statute.
 
Well this thread took an ugly twist. I started it just to ask if Spyderco made AO knives, and it has devolved into whether AO is legal, and whether manual or AO is superior.
 
Gadfly22 said:
Understood and no problem. And, for the record, I'm a huge fan of Kershaw knives and like the fact that they (and other makers) provide a wide range of knives to choose from. I'd just like some clarification about the legal status of my Volt II, Tremor, Blur and Blackout while carrying them in NJ -- though I likely won't get it, since there's very little case law interpreting the applicable statute.
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I do believe that an auto knife is legally defined as push button opening. AO skirts around that because you have to manually begin opening the blade yourself before it kicks in, so an AO is just a glorified manual. The flick of the wrist is replaced with a spring our other opening system. You may still be called out for having an auto, you could easily and validly argue that is not auto. The only rules that you can't skirt are the weapon bans, or size restrictions.
 
Cold Kill said:
I do believe that an auto knife is legally defined as push button opening. AO skirts around that because you have to manually begin opening the blade yourself before it kicks in, so an AO is just a glorified manual. The flick of the wrist is replaced with a spring our other opening system. You may still be called out for having an auto, you could easily and validly argue that is not auto. The only rules that you can't skirt are the weapon bans, or size restrictions.
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Just to clarify, the federal Switchblade Knife Act, defines switchblade knives as any knives that open "1) by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle of the knife, or any knife having a blade which opens automatically; (2) by operation of inertia, gravity, or both." That federal law expressly exempts from the definition a knife "that contains a spring, detent, or other mechanism designed to create a bias toward closure of the blade and that requires exertion applied to the blade by hand, wrist, or arm to overcome the bias toward closure to assist in opening the knife" -- i.e., an AO knife.

But state laws differ in their definitions of a switchblade, and my state statute doesn't have that express exception and talks about "a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife" as being within the definition. Do my AO knives open "automatically" when I apply hand pressure to a spring or other device in the handle? I don't know, and, barring a statutory amendment that tracks the federal exception language, I'm not likely to find out.

But I mention this again so readers in jurisdictions that have similar statutory language don't rely on the federal law, which applies mainly to interstate commerce and possession on federal property.
 
I've never heard of Spyderco making any A/O's. The only automatics that I know of are the Spyderco Citadel and Embassy models.

Personally, I prefer manual folders anyway. :)
 
Gadfly22 said:
Just to clarify, the federal Switchblade Knife Act, defines switchblade knives as any knives that open "1) by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle of the knife, or any knife having a blade which opens automatically; (2) by operation of inertia, gravity, or both." That federal law expressly exempts from the definition a knife "that contains a spring, detent, or other mechanism designed to create a bias toward closure of the blade and that requires exertion applied to the blade by hand, wrist, or arm to overcome the bias toward closure to assist in opening the knife" -- i.e., an AO knife.

But state laws differ in their definitions of a switchblade, and my state statute doesn't have that express exception and talks about "a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife" as being within the definition. Do my AO knives open "automatically" when I apply hand pressure to a spring or other device in the handle? I don't know, and, barring a statutory amendment that tracks the federal exception language, I'm not likely to find out.

But I mention this again so readers in jurisdictions that have similar statutory language don't rely on the federal law, which applies mainly to interstate commerce and possession on federal property.
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Thank you for the exact definition. Good to know that I was close enough on the definition. Couldn't you, when confronted about an AO knife, quote the legal definition by the federal government. The federal government takes obvious superiority over state government, so you have legal precedent. Either way, I live in the knife-living state of Indiana, so I need not worry about knife issues.
 
FWIW, Spyderco did a collaboration with Kershaw and they called it the Spyker. I don't know who produced it but i believe it was AO. Also, for some reason AO really gets people's panties in a bunch around here. That and recurves really upset the more sensitive types. Go figure.

edit, sorry, it wasn't AO equipped.
 
Cold Kill said:
Thank you for the exact definition. Good to know that I was close enough on the definition. Couldn't you, when confronted about an AO knife, quote the legal definition by the federal government. The federal government takes obvious superiority over state government, so you have legal precedent. Either way, I live in the knife-living state of Indiana, so I need not worry about knife issues.
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No. That was the kind of possible misconception I wanted to dispel: federal law doesn't trump state laws on knife possession. The federal law applies mainly to shipping knives across state lines and possession on federal property. State law applies generally to any possession in the particular state.

So, if you walked into a federal courthouse with an auto knife, you could be prosecuted in federal court and separately in state court (though perhaps not convicted in both, since double jeopardy might possibly apply). But if you walked into that federal courthouse with an AO knife, you should be safe from federal prosecution for possession but perhaps not from state prosecution (depending on the particular state statute).

And the federal courthouse was probably a bad example, since I'm sure there's a separate statute that applies to carrying ANY blade into a courthouse.
 
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As its been stated no spyderco has not made an AO blade. I agree with those who said the opening hole would impede the funtion of an AO knife. With thumbstuds and flippers, the only point of contact is infront of your thumb/finger, but with a spydie whole the other side of the whole can come from behind the thumb and catch it. If that happens the motion of the blade can easily be stopped or slowed enough that the blade does not deploy fully.

As to why spyderco does not make AO knives, I remember Sal stating that it is because of the fine line between AOs and automatics and because of Colorado manufacturing laws.
 
Hi Cold Kill,

We've not made production Assisted openers. We have made a few prototypes that Eric designed. Colorado laws can be challenging and we're in good standing with local auhorities. They do watch and we do have to show them any new autos that are planned.

When AO's first came out we avoided them not only for local laws, but Ken is a friend of mine and we were on good terms with Kershaw, so it seemed like the right thing to to to let them have their market.

We do have a flipper (Carson flipper) model designed by Brad Southard that is in-the-works, but no springs.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Cold Kill,

We've not made production Assisted openers. We have made a few prototypes that Eric designed. Colorado laws can be challenging and we're in good standing with local auhorities. They do watch and we do have to show them any new autos that are planned.

When AO's first came out we avoided them not only for local laws, but Ken is a friend of mine and we were on good terms with Kershaw, so it seemed like the right thing to to to let them have their market.

We do have a flipper (Carson flipper) model designed by Brad Southard that is in-the-works, but no springs.

sal
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Very good info. Spyderco doesn't need AOs IMO.
 
I personally feel it just adds complexity and potential failure points without adding performance.
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amd thats why i dont carry AOs in the field or over the pond, to many things cant go wrong and brake. plus it makes the knife harder to clean.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Cold Kill,

We've not made production Assisted openers. We have made a few prototypes that Eric designed. Colorado laws can be challenging and we're in good standing with local auhorities. They do watch and we do have to show them any new autos that are planned.

When AO's first came out we avoided them not only for local laws, but Ken is a friend of mine and we were on good terms with Kershaw, so it seemed like the right thing to to to let them have their market.

We do have a flipper (Carson flipper) model designed by Brad Southard that is in-the-works, but no springs.

sal
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Getting him to actually reply to me is just awesome. I actually realized that Spyderco didn't need an AO, after I fiddled around with my Raven, it works perfectly with just the hole. The action is a bit too smooth to work with an AO, and seems like out would be dangerously fast to open.
 
I'm sure the manual openers would be alot simpler to take apart and longer lasting than an AO. But it'd be fun to have one too :)
 
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