Spyderco BBL Lock & Benchmade Axis Similarities?

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tatfiend

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Apr 24, 2013
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Looking at pictures of the Spyderco Manix2 XL it appears that the blade unlocking actuator is similar to the Axis lock lever, ambidexterous and pulled to the rear to release the blade. Anyone familiar with how similar the designs are as far as how they actually lock the blade?

IMO the Axis lock is one of the most ergonomic and user friendly blade lock designs going and one of the few that is fully ambidexterous.
 
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tatfiend said:
Looking at pictures of the Spyderco Manix2 XL it appears that the blade unlocking actuator is a copy of the Axis lock lever, ambidexterous and pulled to the rear to release the blade. Anyone familiar with how similar the designs are as far as how they actually lock the blade?

IMO the Axis lock is one of the most ergonomic and user friendly blade lock designs going.
Click to expand...

I am pretty familiar with the systems.
Essential it's the same principle, but they are different systems. Think of it as a door knob vs door latch. Same principle, but different systems.

Manix 2's system is quite robust however I find it requires far tighter tolerances than it currently has to meet it's current production potential. I've been working out what do to strengthen the locking mechanism, and I am considering sending my Manix 2 for a modification: adding a 3rd thicker screw to the backspacer and liners to help keep the backspacer from shifting.

The benefits of the axis lock is that it requires less tolerances, and it's strength scales far better than the manix 2. The thicker it gets, the stronger it becomes with no real limit except the size of a hand.
 
The bolt action lock is actuated in the same way and has been around longer than either the AXIS or Spyderco's CBBL.
 
tatfiend, as you are newer I'll cut you a bit of slack here. Copy is a strong word. You may get some comments that you didn't expect because it is not a copy, it's a different lock. Some like the axis better, some like the cbbl better. The springs are entirely different, as are the locks themselves. You can find detailed views through a net search, worth looking before you make the connection of a copy between 2 very reputable companies.
 
and I am considering sending my Manix 2 for a modification: adding a 3rd thicker screw to the backspacer and liners to help keep the backspacer from shifting.
Click to expand...

There is no back spacer on the Manix 2.
 
the way the lock functions is essentially the same, the actual mechanism is quite a bit different.
 
Yo Mama said:
There is no back spacer on the Manix 2.
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There's a stainless steel back spacer which sandwiches the stainless steel ball between the blade and itself.
It also acts as a blade stop and spacer for the liners.
This spacer also receives the energy from backwards and forwards pressure (chopping or batoning). That's why I am considering adding a third thicker screw to add rigidity so it doesn't shift, and why it requires tighter tolerances, it's forming more than one function and is subject to a lot of stress.
 
this. the unlocking mechanism was not a unique feature when benchmade came up with it. though I do think their version perfected it.

what do you think about benchmade knives with the opening hole? did spyderco also copy this? ;)

Random Dan said:
The bolt action lock is actuated in the same way and has been around longer than either the AXIS or Spyderco's CBBL.
Click to expand...
 
Luis G, what do you mean about not tight enough tolerances in the Manix2? Do you mean in the lock mechanism or the frame or spacers or something else? I have one and think its pretty tight overall. Maybe you can tell me something insightful I don't know about.

Thanks!
 
Scottie3000 said:
Luis G, what do you mean about not tight enough tolerances in the Manix2? Do you mean in the lock mechanism or the frame or spacers or something else? I have one and think its pretty tight overall. Maybe you can tell me something insightful I don't know about.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

It's tight and solid. However there is play in the spacer, and the 4 screws which attach hold the scale/liner/spacer together. The tension is only thing keeping the spacer in proper place, with enough force you can shift the backspacer out of place and have lock up issues.

This small amount of play (I will see if I can measure it) can lead to the ball sitting lower, and will disengage easily. It can also cause the ball to go in further than normal however when pressure is exerted it seems to cause the ball to sit lower rather than higher.
Once the spacer shifts you just need to take the knife apart, and adjust the spacer and you'll be good to go.
 
Luis G. said:
There's a stainless steel back spacer which sandwiches the stainless steel ball between the blade and itself.
It also acts as a blade stop and spacer for the liners.
This spacer also receives the energy from backwards and forwards pressure (chopping or batoning). That's why I am considering adding a third thicker screw to add rigidity so it doesn't shift, and why it requires tighter tolerances, it's forming more than one function and is subject to a lot of stress.
Click to expand...

You're right. Not enought coffee today yet. Don't know what I was thinking.
 
This is going to start a fanboy holy war. Subscribing just for entertainment value. Bring on the popcorn.

:encouragement:
 
Honestly, the SOG Arc lock and old Cold Steel Ultra lock are much, much closer. The CBBL is superficially similar, but if you ever break down the folder you'll see it's very different.
 
tatfiend said:
Looking at pictures of the Spyderco Manix2 XL it appears that the blade unlocking actuator is a copy of the Axis lock lever, ambidexterous and pulled to the rear to release the blade. Anyone familiar with how similar the designs are as far as how they actually lock the blade?

IMO the Axis lock is one of the most ergonomic and user friendly blade lock designs going.
Click to expand...

No more than Benchmade Griptilian models having a "Spyderhole" in their newer models. As for the axis Lock it is just a release the lock is still a linear lock.
 
bertosknives said:
It looks similar but not the same lock hope you guys are joking about copying a hole now thats funny how would you even defend something like that mabyee a pattern hole but not a round hole don't think spydercos the kind of company that would make a fuss about a hole and I dont think they are company that needs to copy lock designs.
Click to expand...

Rut-roh.
 
Absolutely different. One uses a round bar activated by wire omega springs, the other uses a round ball activated by a coil spring.

tatfiend said:
Looking at pictures of the Spyderco Manix2 XL it appears that the blade unlocking actuator is a copy of the Axis lock lever, ambidexterous and pulled to the rear to release the blade. Anyone familiar with how similar the designs are as far as how they actually lock the blade?

IMO the Axis lock is one of the most ergonomic and user friendly blade lock designs going.
Click to expand...
 
Copying BM? Caged BB lock is very different from the Axis lock. Not the case at all. These kinds of locks go way before McHenry and Williams came up with the Axis. Try the 60's with Blackie Collins bolt action locks. The Axis is under patent. BM would have brought up this issue years ago if it was being used.

Copying Spyderco? Depends on who you talk to. Beaten to death. The two companies have settled it privately. The Spydiehole is trademarked.
 
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