Spyderco BBL Lock & Benchmade Axis Similarities?

The difference between the caged ball lock and the Axis lock, is that the caged ball lock spring doesn't break. That, and the entire design is different. They both wedge something between the tang and a stop pin, but that's about it.

If anything, Benchmade is copying Spydercos opening hole.
 
Spyderco is the innovator, not the copier. When they use someone else's concept or design, they license it, or give credit where its due. Michael Walker didn't invent the linerlock, but he invented the modern version of it. When Spyderco makes a linerlock, they credit Walker. Chris Reeve took this to another level and created the frame lock. Spyderco credits Reeve by calling their frame lock knives as having a "Reeve Integral Lock". No other company can claim this much honesty, save A.G. Russell, who IMO is the only other that gives respect and credit where it is due.

The ball bearing lock, and the AXIS lock (and many other locks) resemble each other in the way that they wedge something in the way of the blade moving. I'm not sure how Blackie Collin's lock works. I know how the AXIS lock works, and it's very different than the way the Spyderco ball lock works. I've disassembled as SOG lock on a Flash, and it was the most poorly, overly complicated design I've ever come across. Mechanically similar, yet extremely different.

That said, accusing Spyderco of copying or stealing anything is absurd, and frankly, offensive. Few, if any companies operate with the integrity and moral righteousness that Spyderco does. They have been wronged countless times, by many, but have wronged nobody. Spyderco is the company that brought both pocket clips and one-handed opening to the world of modern pocket knives. They are the innovators, not the imitators.
 
Luis G. said:
It's tight and solid. However there is play in the spacer, and the 4 screws which attach hold the scale/liner/spacer together. The tension is only thing keeping the spacer in proper place, with enough force you can shift the backspacer out of place and have lock up issues.

This small amount of play (I will see if I can measure it) can lead to the ball sitting lower, and will disengage easily. It can also cause the ball to go in further than normal however when pressure is exerted it seems to cause the ball to sit lower rather than higher.
Once the spacer shifts you just need to take the knife apart, and adjust the spacer and you'll be good to go.
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So if they just made the holes in the spacer more precisely, it'd be okay? I've never noticed that to be a factor, but i wouldn't say I've really used that knife too hard either. I'll have to watch for it in the future.
 
They're similar in principle, but very different designs. AXIS lock, Ball Bearing lock, bolt-action lock (courtesy of Blackie Collins), and, to a certain extent, SOG's Arc lock are all similar in the way they are manipulated by the user. Each has their advantages. AXIS lock is very strong, but the omega springs are a failure point. Coil springs tend to be a lot more durable in the long term than those omega springs. The BBL is very smooth, thanks to the ball bearing, but in my experience isn't as strong of a lock as the AXIS lock. Bolt-action is the lock that I would have invented if Blackie Collins hadn't beaten me to it (by a LONG time, really). I'd like to see more knives using it, honestly. I don't really like SOG, so I have no experience with the Arc lock, so not much to say there.
 
Not to beat a dead horse, take sides, fan the flames, accuse/defend, but there have been copies/imitations/improvements etc ever since the first caveman cut his finger on a piece of broken obsidian. Enjoy what knives you enjoy, don't bash other companies, seriously, what's the purpose to do that here unless you are trying to intentionally start a flame war.

If you are that offended that company A copied company B, then the proper place for that is a court of law.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Honestly, the SOG Arc lock and old Cold Steel Ultra lock are much, much closer. The CBBL is superficially similar, but if you ever break down the folder you'll see it's very different.
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The Arc and Ultra locks are both licensed versions of the Axis. (Or was a licensed version of the Axis in the case of the Ultra lock, since it's no longer in production.)

Ronald Sisson said:
No more than Benchmade Griptilian models having a "Spyderhole" in their newer models. As for the axis Lock it is just a release the lock is still a linear lock.
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Not at all true.

FCM415 said:
Copying Spyderco? Depends on who you talk to. Beaten to death. The two companies have settled it privately. The Spydiehole is trademarked.
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All true.

Planterz said:
I'm not sure how Blackie Collin's lock works.
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The Bolt Action lock wedges a piston between the stop pin and blade tang. Same principle as Spyderco's Compression lock, but with the interface of an Axis. It was probably the basis or inspiration for both, at least partially.

I've disassembled as SOG lock on a Flash, and it was the most poorly, overly complicated design I've ever come across. Mechanically similar, yet extremely different.
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The SOG Piston Lock, (the one you're referring to,) and SOG's Arc Lock are completely different. (You probably already know this; I'm writing this more for people who don't know as much. Don't confuse the two, guys, they're not the same thing!) The Arc lock is a licensed version of the Axis, while the Piston is somewhat reminiscent of the Bolt Action. (Though assisted, and, as Planterz said, overly complicated.)

That said, accusing Spyderco of copying or stealing anything is absurd, and frankly, offensive.
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The OP's new, I don't think he meant any harm.
 
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Dan57 said:
The Arc and Ultra locks are both licensed versions of the Axis. (Or was a licensed version of the Axis in the case of the Ultra lock, since it's no longer in production.
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The only nit I would pick is that the Arc Lock is definitely patented, not licensed from Benchmade.
 
Planterz said:
Spyderco is the innovator, not the copier. When they use someone else's concept or design, they license it, or give credit where its due. Michael Walker didn't invent the linerlock, but he invented the modern version of it. When Spyderco makes a linerlock, they credit Walker. Chris Reeve took this to another level and created the frame lock. Spyderco credits Reeve by calling their frame lock knives as having a "Reeve Integral Lock". No other company can claim this much honesty, save A.G. Russell, who IMO is the only other that gives respect and credit where it is due.

The ball bearing lock, and the AXIS lock (and many other locks) resemble each other in the way that they wedge something in the way of the blade moving. I'm not sure how Blackie Collin's lock works. I know how the AXIS lock works, and it's very different than the way the Spyderco ball lock works. I've disassembled as SOG lock on a Flash, and it was the most poorly, overly complicated design I've ever come across. Mechanically similar, yet extremely different.

That said, accusing Spyderco of copying or stealing anything is absurd, and frankly, offensive. Few, if any companies operate with the integrity and moral righteousness that Spyderco does. They have been wronged countless times, by many, but have wronged nobody. Spyderco is the company that brought both pocket clips and one-handed opening to the world of modern pocket knives. They are the innovators, not the imitators.
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This is the post that should end this silly thread.
 
Sorry. :o I did not mean to offend anyone and you will note in my original post that I asked a question about similarity, NOT made an accusation of copying though I do admit to using the word "copy" in the post. Apparently some members are overly sensitive regarding their favorite knife companies.

I have a couple of the old bolt action Gerbers in my accumulation and much prefer them to the old Buck 110 style lock used by so many in that era.
 
No worries, there is no perfect lock and asking questions or noticing things is how we all learn.

I'm more of a fan of the axis lock than the CBBL, they do provide the same function in a different manner.
 
Skimo;

Some of these posters really got their knickers tied into a knot with parts of their anatomy caught in the result apparently. I ask a question and get castigated for making accusations regarding the integrity of Spyderco!!! Seems to me some posters do not carefully read the original post and go off half cocked. Engage brain before giving response folks.
 
FWIW, there are people who favor either lock for whatever reason. Take reports of failure with a grain of salt. I've seen pics of the CBBL lock broken and I'm sure there are reports of the AXIS lock springs broken, but these happenings are rare and that's what warranty departments are for. AXIS FTW, hehe!
 
Phew at least this was an easy question, although maybe a google search will produce quicker results next time? :D

Same idea, different construction, totally different construction, I prefere the Axis lock for the actuation and smoothness, but I think the CBBL is super innovative and get's my vote as favorite locking mechanism :thumbup:
 
And they both copy Buck for their lockback designs, and n sure which was first, but one of the two copied the hole in the blade to open the knife, and......

Or maybe, they, like folks in all industries, see trends and popular styles, and make similar features without infringing on patents. Just a guess though....
 
tatfiend said:
Some of these posters really got their knickers tied into a knot with parts of their anatomy caught in the result apparently. I ask a question and get castigated for making accusations regarding the integrity of Spyderco!!!

Seems to me some posters do not carefully read the original post and go off half cocked.

Engage brain before giving response folks.
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Its not the post as much as the title. I like both companies myself, but maybe you should engage your brain and change your title.
If I were you I would change it from "Spyderco copying Benchmade?" to... Difference between the AXIS and BBL lock ?
Spyderco calls it the Ball Bearing Lock.
 
Ken44 said:
Its not the post as much as the title. I like both companies myself, but maybe you should engage your brain and change your title.
If I were you I would change it from "Spyderco copying Benchmade?" to... Difference between the AXIS and BBL lock ?
Spyderco calls it the Ball Bearing Lock.
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Yeah, it was intended as an innocent question apparently, but the title can be quite misleading to some people. I personally assumed it was just a question and wasn't meant to stir the pot but it could certainly rub folks the wrong way.
 
Ken44 said:
Its not the post as much as the title. I like both companies myself, but maybe you should engage your brain and change your title.
If I were you I would change it from "Spyderco copying Benchmade?" to... Difference between the AXIS and BBL lock ?
Spyderco calls it the Ball Bearing Lock.
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Title changed. I STILL think that some posters overreacted to the title, even with the question mark in the original one making it a question rather than an accusation.

BTW, for all the Spyderco enthusiasts out there, I do have a Manix2 XL and a Dragonfly 2 on order. I do not mislike Spyderco, just have never owned one before and that is about to be corrected. As a traditionalist in many respects I always thought their blade shapes, with the hole, looked wierd I guess.

Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa
 
tatfiend said:
I STILL think that some posters overreacted to the title,
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You are entitled to your opinion...stick around a while and perhaps you will come to understand that a title like that will 'draw the foul', so to speak.
 
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