Spyderco Chokwe lock failure

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that's what I'm seeing. I've got a Chokwe and I can trick it closed . I'm ham handed enough to cut myself doing it though. :)

Razorsharp86, not my experience with the Vendor that Sal is working with in Taiwan. These knives have been excellent, with grinds equal to the best of the Seki ones IME. The Bradley is truly exceptional. The Chokwe was a pleasant surprise for me too, given it's not the sleekest looking one I've seen.
 
The Mastiff said:
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that's what I'm seeing. I've got a Chokwe and I can trick it closed . I'm ham handed enough to cut myself doing it though. :)
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Sorry for my english, maybe i understand you incorrectly, but it wasn't trick. I've posted it here because i try to understand what is wrong with my knife and i hope it helps Spyderco (my favorite knife company - i wrote some reviews about it for our local Ukrainian Blade magazine) become better. If i doing something wrong (something about Esav Benyamin's technique) - well, I'm really sorry. But i don't think it because of technique - i really can't fold another folders this way. And I'm really sorry that happens with Spyderco knife that I like.
 
It's a good point to bring up because it can help Spyderco find if there is a tendency for the lock to slip.

Also, "trick" doesn't always mean maliciously. Sometimes it means a gimmick or a strange way of doing things. :)
 
Is there a Youtube video of the spine whack test? It appears that you are flexing your pointing finger which may cause just enough pressure to disengage the lock. maybe try a different hold and again attempt to cause the failure.

I am surprised when i hear two things about Spyderco; that their lock failed and that they arrived dull. I have owned many spydercos over the years and they were always shaving sharp out of the box. I have never experienced a lock failure but acknowledge it certainly is possible.

A video of a spine whack test would be conclusive for me..........................

Firebat, I think he means Spyderco has spoiled him in a good sense.
 
12 posts moved to a new thread about Taiwan QC:
"I did notice though - extract from Chokwe lock failure"
 
[...]maybe because of slightly curved butt of the blade tang?
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Yes, that's what I think. I own 2 Chokwes, and I just took the "used" one that never failed me to test the lock again.

If I REALLY try to push the blade down, I can get the lock moving. I could make a vid, but it is really obvious: the harder I press down the blade, the more the lock disengages. I didn't get the lock to fail, but there was not much "lock" left when I stopped trying. After a few tests, I know what is happening:

The "curved butt" is of course trying to push the frame lock back when the blade is pressed down. That's quite obvious and easy to understand if you just look at the lock. It will be the same for ALL liner and frame locks and won't change as long as the surface of the blade where the frame/liner locking bar meets is angled.
What keeps the lock from "failing" is the friction that keeps the lock bar in its place. Sure, this friction makes it a little tougher to unlock the knife, but it is not helping when it comes to keeping the lock bar in place when testing the knife.

zuzja, try to push the lock bar further to the SS/G10 side of the handle when opening it. On my brand new Chokwe for example, if I really try hard, I can push the lockbar quite far to the other side, so that 7/8 of the bar are actually touching the blade. No way to unlock it when I do this, and oiling the locking surface doesn't help either, because that will make the problem even worse.

The only way to avoid this problem is to give the blae tang surface (where the lockbar meets) a "curved" appearance like on the newer Militaries: pretty close to 0° at the beginning and increasing towards the other end of the surface. The Chokwe's surface is just too straight, and that allows the lock to slip back, in the worst case until it unlocks.

Again, pushing the lock further to the side "into the lock" will help you keeping it from unlocking, zuzja.

Dennis
 
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It may have just needed to be "seated" better by a little wear in.

Sometimes hard inertial openings help, also.
 
orthogonal1 said:
It may have just needed to be "seated" better by a little wear in.

Sometimes hard inertial openings help, also.
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+1. I have had LLs and FLs that did not lock securely if g-e-n-t-l-y opened. Not necessarily a hard inertial opening, but just a firm opening.
 
Zuzja, I meant no insult to you. It's a language thing, maybe dialect more accurately as your english is more correct in this case than mine.

What I am saying is that I can get it open by other than the intended manner. Good luck with your knife, and welcome to Blade forums. Joe
 
FWIW - I just got my first Sage CF and the natural way that I would grip the knife during hard use releases the liner lock. :(
Bummer, Nested Liner Locks (Like the Para) FTW!
I'm not complaining at all, I was just surprised. I love the Sage, I just need to use a lot of caution when using it.
 
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The Mastiff said:
Zuzja, I meant no insult to you. It's a language thing, maybe dialect more accurately as your english is more correct in this case than mine.

What I am saying is that I can get it open by other than the intended manner. Good luck with your knife, and welcome to Blade forums. Joe
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Thank You, The Mastiff!

After some tests and their analysis I can say: while I'm pushing the blade with straight middle finger (or, unbend finger?:confused:) i can't fold the Chokwe with my super-thumb. So, maybe knife folds because of light touch. But why it doesn't pass spine-test at first test series?

In any case, now i know the limits of this knife and would like to say many thanks to Sal and co for this REALLY beautiful knife! Oh men, how it cuts, my grandpa's lightsaber getting rust when see it! :cool: It hasn't neither vertical nor horizontal blade-play, there is no gaps between G-10 plate and steel liner. Chokwe fits well for my hand, handle doesn't disturb and rub me in any grip. The only one thing - it looks like some anatomic feature of my hand can leads to lock failure:( Maybe it's because of too deep and wide cut at handle above spyderhole...:confused: If so, i should buy new Gayle Bradley folder;)
 
The knife is a very nice slicer. It feels better in the hand than it looks too, in my opinion. As far as the Bradley goes I'd say get one if you can manage it. It has the excellent build of the Chokwe, but in a heavier built hard use knife that has an exceptional combination of high performance blade steel, with a grind and geometry to take advantage of the steels strong points.

I don't mind at all having non stainless blades. I grew up with them so I'm going to clean and oil a blade down whether it's stainless or tool steel. To me the tool steel blades take finer, and stronger edges, for less effort than similar performance stainless steels. If you like M2, you are pretty sure to like CPM M4 blades.

At 1200 grit, or 16,000 grit with a diamond strop it will slice like a laser while shrugging off nicks and chips better than most any stainless steel.

I'd like the blade to be a bit longer, but I can live with it as is. It's destined to be a classic. Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
The knife is a very nice slicer. It feels better in the hand than it looks too, in my opinion. As far as the Bradley goes I'd say get one if you can manage it. It has the excellent build of the Chokwe, but in a heavier built hard use knife that has an exceptional combination of high performance blade steel, with a grind and geometry to take advantage of the steels strong points.

I don't mind at all having non stainless blades. I grew up with them so I'm going to clean and oil a blade down whether it's stainless or tool steel. To me the tool steel blades take finer, and stronger edges, for less effort than similar performance stainless steels. If you like M2, you are pretty sure to like CPM M4 blades.

At 1200 grit, or 16,000 grit with a diamond strop it will slice like a laser while shrugging off nicks and chips better than most any stainless steel.

I'd like the blade to be a bit longer, but I can live with it as is. It's destined to be a classic. Joe
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+1, the Bradley is a masterpiece. The fit and finish is just great, and the grind is nice and thin on the high, deep hollow grind of very hard CPM M4. I like it much more than I thought it would after I first saw the specs on it, but is one ultra beefy knife with a thin for production knife edge (actually Really thin, but not Krein thin like I am addicted to), and due to the way the choil is designed there is more edge length than the modest blade length made me expect. The combo of great steel with an excellent grind for slicing ability and still excellent toughness, very beefy lock and beefy build quality, great CF scales over nicely polished liners, and the great fit and finish make this knife a great bargain and classic IMO. I will report the factory hardness back after it's tested next week (I hope mine is 65 RC like Gayle Bradley reported his personal knives being, to save some trouble) prior to re heat treating the blade as hard as Phil Wilson can get it, and possibly getting it reground slightly thinner. I have nothing but praise for the factory heat treat though, as it sharpens so crisp and burr free I think I got this knife sharper than any other knife I've ever sharpened. The knife easily pushcuts newsprint over 7" from the point of hold and does silly tricks with the thinnest of hairs. As soon as I recover from the hit of Christmas and knife mods coming up I'll be getting a spare Bradley and leaving it as is except for putting my personal edge on it. That way I'll have one with the Bradley logo and I can compare the great Spyderco heat treat with the super hard re heat treat to as hard as Phil Wilson sees possible without getting chipping (65-66RC I'm guessing). I'll probably get it thinned to .010" from the factory .017" to maximize cutting performance, though I will sacrafice some (probably very little, but we'll) toughness to get that ultra performance. It will be great though to have one Bradley that truly maximizes performance of CPM M4 and then one factory one to have as a very hard use knife that could be the best cutting (in cutting abiity, wear resistance, extreme sharpness, and toughness) hard use liner lock out there. The price is a bargain, too. The Gayle Bradley is just a great knife, and Spyderco, Gayle Bradley, and the maker in Taiwan combined to make a classic high performance hard use blade. I'm a sucker for CPM M4, and this is a great design to showcase the great all around performance of it.
 
Added these photos at first post and made it like mini-review.

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Sal, sorry for "false start", i really like this knife no matter what :)
 
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