Spyderco Civilian in CA?

[MrSuicide]

A gravity knife is any folder that can be opened by the flick of a wrist.

almost any knife can be opened with a flick of the wrist with enough practice. This is not the definition of a gravity knife.

 

[jumico]

It's my understanding that cops are paid to enforce the law as it's written, not whatever law "they want."

Funny Guy
Yes that is what they're PAID to do.

 

[freediving]

Let me make this clear, and by all means look at my profile:

Switchblade Knife (blade length 2 in. or more) Possess in a motor vehicle passenger or driver's area in a public place or open to public, carry on the person, or sell, offer for sale, loan, or give to a person. [Misdemeanor] Switchblade knife includes a spring-blade, snap-blade, gravity, or similiar type knife, but not a blade opened by a thumb of one hand or a thumb stud blade attachment with a device to impede opening, or turn blade back into a closed position.

A gravity knife is any folder that can be opened by the flick of a wrist.

Automatic knives are most definitely switchblades and are (supposedly) sold only to LE or military.

You can look up the actual code if you want.

And I've heard all kinds of excuses.

S/F

So the CRKT M16-14SF that I was carrying was or was not legal to carry?

 

[Luckylefty01]

Let me make this clear, and by all means look at my profile:

Switchblade Knife (blade length 2 in. or more) Possess in a motor vehicle passenger or driver's area in a public place or open to public, carry on the person, or sell, offer for sale, loan, or give to a person. [Misdemeanor] Switchblade knife includes a spring-blade, snap-blade, gravity, or similiar type knife, but not a blade opened by a thumb of one hand or a thumb stud blade attachment with a device to impede opening, or turn blade back into a closed position.

A gravity knife is any folder that can be opened by the flick of a wrist.

Automatic knives are most definitely switchblades and are (supposedly) sold only to LE or military.

You can look up the actual code if you want.

And I've heard all kinds of excuses.

S/F

My understanding (IANAL, of course) was that any knife with any sort of detent or bias towards closure could not be considered a gravity knife in CA, even if it could be opened with centrifugal force.

This is from the actual law (from here):

653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's
area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the
public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells,
offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any
other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in
length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a
knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a
spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other
similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more
inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick
of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other
mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by
any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not
include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure
applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to
the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism
that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade,
or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means
that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver
and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.

And here is a the entirety of the memo (copied from here) written about the intent of the amendment to 653k of the part about the detent or bias towards closure, which should make it absolutely clear (imo) what the intent of adding this language was (i.e., to make knives such as spyderco's or benchmades (and many many others) clearly legal, even though if you provide enough force they can usually be flicked open with the wrist):

Published in the July 18, 2001 edition of the Senate Daily Journal on page 2070.
DRAFT - LETTER TO THE SENATE DAILY JOURNAL

July 5, 2001

Mr. Gregory Schmidt
Secretary of the Senate

Dear Greg:

The purpose of this letter is to express the Legislature’s intent in enacting my SB 274, which makes amendments to Penal Code Section 653k.

Section 653k makes it a misdemeanor to make, sell or possess upon one’s person a switchblade in California. The statute was enacted in 1957 and provides a length definition of a switchblade knife. In 1996, AB 3314 (Ch. 1054) an exemption was created for one-handed folding knives. Recently, there has been concern that the language of the exemption is broadly read to apply to knives that are essentially switchblades, but are designed to fall under the language of the exemption.

In order to ensure that only legitimate one-handed opening knives are covered, SB 274 narrows the language to only allow knives to fall under the exemption from the switchblade law if that one-handed opening knife contains a detent or similar mechanism. Such mechanisms ensure there is a measure of resistance (no matter how slight) that prevents the knife from being easily opened with a flick of the wrist. Moreover, a detent or other mechanism is prudent and a matter of public safety as it will ensure that a blade will not inadvertently come open.

Although some one-handed opening knives can be opened with a strong flick of the wrist, so long as they contact a detent or similar mechanism that provides some resistance to opening the knife, then the exemption is triggered. These knives serve an important utility to many knife users, as well as firefighters, EMT personnel, hunters, fishermen, and others utilize one-handed opening knives.

The exemption created in 1996 was designed to decriminalize the legitimate use of these extremely functional tools by law-abiding citizens. SB 274 is not intended to interfere with those knife owners and users. The amendments to Section 653k accomplish this important purpose by establishing more objective criteria for determining whether a knife meets the intended exemption to the switchblade law.

Sincerely,
BETTY KARNETTE
Senator, 27th District

If you have any clear evidence as to why these knives would still be illegal, I'm open to hearing it.

 

[PTKstockton]

Sorry so late... just got back from NY to spend last moments with my grandmother.

MrSuicide, if you're telling me that I don't know the definition of a gravity knife, then enlighten me. Otherwise, please read my response to LL01.

Of course, any knife can be opened by the flick of a wrist. I'm not a lawmaker, nor will I say anything about what kind of a knife is illegal. I enforce the laws. 653k specifically defines switchblade knives. A gravity knife opens just as quick as a switch. I've charged quite a few people in the past for carrying a "gravity" knife, and the charges stuck in court.

LuckyLefty01, I owned a Cold Steel Voyager, for example, with a blade "stud" as defined in 653k. This may consider the knife as thumb assisted, thus making an exemption to 653k. But, before I lost that knife last year, it was loose enough to open (closed/blade facing the downward) with very little wrist action. Can you make the call whether or not that knife is legal? Does everyone think that CA cops will charge anyone with a knife these days? Why are we so worried about the letter of the law?

Gotta go back to work. PM me... it's better that way.

 

[ckj]

I can understand the misunderstanding about gravity knives, in NY any knife that may be opened through centripetal force (even if you have to be a gorilla to do it) can be considered a gravity knive. However, California has a more strict definition, and as long as the knife has a detent and a bias towards closed it may not be considered a gravity knife.

You can test the bias towards close yourself by pulling the blade 1/2" out and letting go. If the blade snaps back then it has a bias towards closing.

In short according to California law, the civillian is legal, but other places have different rules defining gravity knives so you may be in trouble in other parts of the country.

Sorry so late... just got back from NY to spend last moments with my grandmother.

...

Why are we so worried about the letter of the law?

I just need to address this small comment. I realize that you are a law enforcement officer and your job is to enforce the law. I'll hope you will agree with me that it is much easier to enforce the law when the rules are clear. In addition, it helps the civillian to follow the law when it is clear yes? So why not take care, to make sure the law is clear and it is consistant, so good honest people know what to expect and may follow the law without fear of some misinterpretation?

 

[Argyll]

Of course, any knife can be opened by the flick of a wrist. I'm not a lawmaker, nor will I say anything about what kind of a knife is illegal. I enforce the laws. 653k specifically defines switchblade knives. A gravity knife opens just as quick as a switch. I've charged quite a few people in the past for carrying a "gravity" knife, and the charges stuck in court.

LuckyLefty01, I owned a Cold Steel Voyager, for example, with a blade "stud" as defined in 653k. This may consider the knife as thumb assisted, thus making an exemption to 653k. But, before I lost that knife last year, it was loose enough to open (closed/blade facing the downward) with very little wrist action. Can you make the call whether or not that knife is legal?

With all due respect to your admirable service protecting the community, yes I could make the call whether that knife was legal under CPC 653K, and the answer based on the information provided would be Yes. As has been stated by many others, and more or less acknowledged yourself, the Code provides a clear definition of what is, and more importantly, what is not an illegal knife in this great state.

Assuming your Voyager still functioned as a normal lockback then you must have had to overcome some resistance to open it i.e. the blade doesn't just flop out on its own when you held it upside down, even if it wasn't as tight as it once was. Alternatively, when you closed it, didn't at some point the blade snaps back into the handle, that is a bias towards closing. Regardless of whether it has a thumb stud or not, one or the other is all that is required to make a knife legal, and no amount of wrist flicking can change that.

Best regards,

Argyll

 

[PTKstockton]

I would have made the same decision, myself. Please don't assume that I don't understand the letter.

S/F

 

[Kal El in SLO]

make sure to check the local codes.

that knife would be illegal to carry in los angeles county.....as far as i can tell.

SEC. 55.10.
(a) As used in this section, the term “knife” or “dagger” shall include any knife, dirk or dagger having a blade 3 inches or more in length, any ice pick or similar sharp tool, any straight edge razor or any razor blade fitted to a handle.
(b) No person shall wear or carry in plain view any knife or dagger upon any public street or other public place or in any place open to the public.
(c) The prohibitions of this section shall not apply where a person is wearing or carrying a knife or dagger for use in a lawful occupation, for lawful recreational purposes, or as a recognized religious practice, or while the person is traveling to or returning from participation in such activity.

 

[medusaoblongata]

That LA County code only covers knives carried unconcealed. It does not cover concealed folders. (concealed fixed blades being illegal per state law)