Spyderco construction question

There are lots of reasons they do it. As for price, most of the models including Spydercos are in the same price class....not all, but most.

They are most times less expensive than models with liners, which Spyderco also makes plenty off.

They are not heavy compared to same size knives with liners, and comfort of carry is important to alot of people.

When I worked retail, we sold lots of knives of all styles. Probably the two models I personally sold the most (besides SAK) were the Spyderco Endura, and the SOG Air-Sog models. For the most part they were not sold to knife nuts. Most of the knife nuts bought the more expensive models because they did not think the linerless knives would hold up.....not that they used thier prized knives hard if at all.

The people buying the Endura and Air-Sogs were average blue-collar types who used thier knives hard. They generally did not know much about them, and went alot by what we said. They did not want to spend more than they had to. After a while, many of them would bring the knives in for sharpening. These things were beat all to hell, with blades scratched terribly, and handles that had obviously been dropped, scuffed and everything else, but never broken. When I say some of these guys used them hard, I mean harder than 90 percent of us will ever use a knife in our lifetime. Fact is these knives (without liners) took all the punishment in stride.

I have seen people here look down on linerless knives, well...mainly because of what they have read, and theory. If given a fair chance these knives will serve you very well, and assuming you do not intentionally set out to destroy them, you would have a hard time using one and making it fail.
 
mnblade & Richard speak the truth!
Linerless Spydies are tough as hell! I have used a FRN Endura hard, and it just laughs at me and says "Is that all ya got?"
:)
 
Originally posted by mnblade
Let me be blunt: The notion that any of the lightweight FRN model Spydies are in any way weak or flimsy or sub-par or not up to <i>any</I> reasonable task thrown at them is simply bogus. They're great knives that are tough as hell. And they're designed like that for a reason - not to cut corner$, but because the material is light and strong as hell.

I love when guys around here write something like "the FRN handles just seem too flimsy, like they couldn't handle any real pressure." Gosh, you can't get a more-precise engineering analysis than THAT, can you? :rolleyes: Jesus, guys, man has been to the moon and back! In fact we travel to space all the time - I live in Florida and have seen the shuttle go up. We have satellite television and the internet. We can microwave our dinners and carry a phone in our pocket! I promise you, modern plastics are strong enough for anything you want to throw at a pocketknife.

Your comments make the assumption that this design is based purely on engineering requirements and not on cost. Just because the technology is there doesnt mean the design doesnt make compromises for the sake of the bottom line. The best explanation I have heard so far is that the blade locking mechanism that these types of knives employ dont need metal liners like a liner lock does. Unfortunately your contribution didnt inform. I just love it when you guys jump all over people with comments like "...Gosh, you can't get a more-precise engineering analysis than THAT".

Anyway I will still get a Harpy and a Civilian and give it a try.
 
FRN Spydies are tough as hell, really. I tested a delica about as far as you can go. First I used it as my EDC for a little over a year. LOTS of HARD use, handle would occasionally flex if I twisted the knife in something but would never give much or act like it was going to break. And it never took a set bend, always springs back to form and the knife works as smooth as ever.
After tons of hard use and frequent sharpening the blade was sort of trashed and the handle was full of scratches and stuff. So I decided to make a new handle. Let me tell you it was a bear to take that FRN handle off. I drilled the heads out on all the rivets as best I could and they still didn't want to let go. I eventually got the pin out of the locking bar by prying at the scales with a screw driver. After sliding it out of place and pulling the spring, I had to cut the handle lengthwise through the spine with a bandsaw (That was tough)put the blade in a vise, and pry the scales off one at a time.

Once I had finally made it I was wondering why the hell I wanted to replace such a tough handle :) but with it apart, I cleaned up all the peices ground the blade down a little thinner and made a handle with 410 SS liners and Rosewood scales. I'm not sure I would want to put my handle up against the FRN in a toughness contest, but the knife doesn't see any hard use now, and it looks awesome IMHO ;)
 
I've put my Delica(PE/FRN) through hell... I used it to cut shingles and tar paper last summer, this summer it was used to cut landscaping fabric from beside bricks(and got scratched all to hell). I have dropped it from my roof onto gravel and on the cement on the shed floor when working on doing the rafters. It has yet to show any signs of wear. It still locks up tight, and has no wiggle what so ever. It only flexes when pressure is applied downwards cutting against a board, as any good lockback is supposed to do.

Spyderco makes the finest of tools, and they stand up to hard work everyday.
 
agree the spydies are as strong as ya will ever need, but i do like the way BM has 2 liners on most models, just looks better to me, though i'm sure they prob arent any stronger than spydies.

i know ya arent supposed to, but i use my old matriarch for opening boxes/envelopes/etc and its stronger than i thought, has done some cutting, and no damage to the blade (yet anyway, i post this and it breaks a tip tomorrow 4 to 1 odds lol) but again, i dont recommend this to anyone, i have 2 mats, and a civvy to play with, and the older mat just got the opening duties somehow, and if the tip did break off, it wouldnt be the end of the world.

greg
 
If it is of interest, the reason Spyderco makes the linerless models is to reduce weight. They do this without compromising strength. In my experience they are successful with this concept. The linerless spydercos are indeed lighter and have no history of premature failure. Spyderco also makes models with liners which are heavier. Perhaps the simple solution to those who don't like linerless knives is to buy one of those. Others have pointed out that linerless knives are not unique to Spyderco and, of course, they aren't. Take care.
 
I ran with an Endura in my right pocket and a CRKT C/K 3" in my pocket. I only noticed the CRKT and the Endura is hardly there.
It's thtat lightweight and slim.
I've seen some flexing when I really put pressure down on it but it just came back like nothing's harmed.
If I'm rich I'll probably put the FRN handle to the hammer and try how "durable" it is, but I got no money now...
 
One thing that no one seems to have pointed out is that Bob Terzoula (the Fathher of the modern tactical knife) has been making $400+ custom pieces for years with one liner.

Phil Boguszewski uses single liners in many models as well.

While I am not a fan of single liners myself it is not necessarily a bad thing. I would prefer that a single liner knife be made in a lock back (ala Spyderco Police) rather than liner lock.

I also think you could look at Glock & HK handguns to see that the technology of modern "plastics" has been greatly enhanced over the years.

Probably my two favorite production knives are Spyderco's, the Police and the Chinook. Both knives are on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as intended use.

The Chinook is a way over built tank with deep hollow grinds and dual liners where the Police is a long sleek, thinly flat ground blade with a single liner.

You just need to look at the intended use for the knife in questions to decide if it is what you want or not.
 
Heya AKADave,
How was the fair this year? if it quits rainin' on us we were hopin' to take our son out there tonight. (hope to avoid that weekend crowd)

Anyhoo, I don't know if yer familiar with Northern Knives at all, but I was in there last week and had the opportunity to compare a Matriarch and a Civilian side by side. Gotta say the Matriarch seems functional for it's intended jobs, but the Civilian is SWEET in comparison. Problem being price point. As I recall it's a NIB consignment with Carbon Fiber handle and they were asking around $150.

If ya' wanna give 'em a look they're at 531 West 5th Avenue kinda caddywhompus from the Sheraton in the yellow building shared by Pete's Tobacco shop.

Phone number is 569-1800

Might be worth a shot....

take care, eh?
 
Dave,
A lot of valuable things were said, I just would like to add my $0.02

There are quite different things. Heavy, overbuilt, tank-like construction what causes your confidence with its strength and solidity on one side.
The toughness what is enough to hold up on knife intended use on another side...

Some time ago I had some reservations why SPYDERCO Military and later Starmate (the same internal construction) have only one liner and how it would hold on intended (tactical) use. I have discussed this matter here and with Sal and in result I believed (with limited confidence) that they are strong enough. But what convinced me completely – the daily use of Military during some years around my household. I have used (and I’m still using) it from my kitchen up to garage and backyard and nothing wrong occurs with this lightweight and seemingly not-too-strong construction.

In another words, get SPYDERCO knife what you do like and try to destroy it on intended use – cutting. If you will get success – please tell us about your experience ;)
 
wow...just looked up a Carbon Fiber Civvie here on the net...$150 aint bad...although I forgot to mention the edge on the one I saw is plain.

regarding my impressions of the FRN/one sided liner issue, I gotta say, I'm one of the folks who truly believes it to be a non issue. I've carried a Military, Starmate,Wegner, and Blackhawk all with no troubles at all. I've used the FRN ones for plenty of heavy duty tasks while camping, working construction,truck driving, warehousing, and in volunteer duty with pre-hospital care and I've never had one fail on me. I've made some of 'em so darn ugly I couldn't give them away here on the forums, but they all still work as good as the day I'd bought them.

have a good 'un, eh?
 
RWS: which ones are ugly enough that you wouldn't give them away? I don't terribly mind ;) :p
 
AKADAVE -
I don't think that I'd worry a lot about the spydie you have with no liners - I've used Gerbers with Zytel and nothing else for years and carried a Delica Spydie for quite a while - mine is the old one with the molded on pocket clip. Never a problem! Remember - these knives carry a guarantee - replace/repair if it fails - I think few people have had to collect on that! All you've lost is some weight on that knife!
 
Originally posted by cpirtle
One thing that no one seems to have pointed out is that Bob Terzoula (the Fathher of the modern tactical knife) has been making $400+ custom pieces for years with one liner.

Phil Boguszewski uses single liners in many models as well.

While I am not a fan of single liners myself it is not necessarily a bad thing. I would prefer that a single liner knife be made in a lock back (ala Spyderco Police) rather than liner lock.

I also think you could look at Glock & HK handguns to see that the technology of modern "plastics" has been greatly enhanced over the years.

Probably my two favorite production knives are Spyderco's, the Police and the Chinook. Both knives are on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as intended use.

The Chinook is a way over built tank with deep hollow grinds and dual liners where the Police is a long sleek, thinly flat ground blade with a single liner.

You just need to look at the intended use for the knife in questions to decide if it is what you want or not.

Hey RWS, the fair was pretty much the same this year. Interesting thing is that they didnt allow ANY knives being carried on the fairgrounds...of course there were many knife vendors and sharpeners and they did a brisk business. I found a Spyderco booth and unfortunately he wanted 100% more than on-line prices. I can see more but that was ridiculous.

Im gonna get a Spydie I think. I really like to the look of the Civie but I want something I can open the odd box with or cut rope etc. I guess the Harpy is the one but I wish they made a G-10 model.

I have been to Northern Knives. I traded in all my uatos and bought a few things there. I got a CRKT Falcon and a Microtec LCC.

Dave
 
AKA: Have the merlin... that thing slices extremely well... also you'll definately scare people with that blade ;)
 
Originally posted by AKADave
I guess the Harpy is the one but I wish they made a G-10 model.

They did. I have one in my pocket. Check EBay. Usually some there.
 
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