Spyderco Customer Service

[digital9ja]

I'm really disappointed with the quality of the caged ball bearing locking mechanism. The central complaint I have is with the very weak plastic switch, specifically the slender nose that the spring rides on.

I bought a Manix 2 and it is actually a pretty sweet knife not considering the weak caged ball bearing lock. I like the steel, the design, the blade geometry, the handle and the clip. I carried this knife for years before going to an Ontario Rat-1. I know the RAT-1 is far from perfect but for the price I liked the bigger blade and it is a decent knife.

I initially became upset that the Manix 2 was not designed to be fully disassembled. I think that is just so stupid, I never would have invested in the knife at all if I knew that going into the deal. But whatever, you live and learn sometimes I guess. When I tried to take it apart I ended up breaking the slender plastic nose off the switch that the spring rides on. I was mad about such a crappy material being used, but honestly more mad at myself for breaking it because I liked the knife. I ended up JB Welding it bavk on and it worked for awhile but then broke again. I contacted Spyderco and was sent a replacement switch. I installed it and it worked just fine for a couple years.

Since I started carrying a RAT-1 sometime ago my Manix 2 has just sat in a drawer. I never really used this knife for anything other than just a defensive carry blade. I had it out the other week and just from basically playing with it and snapping it open amd closed the spring nose on the switch broke again and flew out.

I was disappointed to say the least and I thought it is time to get rid of this thing. I had been considering getting a Manix XL to replace my RAT-1 but after this latest failure I don't wamt to have anything to do with their CBBL ever again. It is neat, but it is just a weak design that I don't trust.

I emailed Spyderco and requested a replacement switch so I could get this thing operational again and sell it and Lord almighty you would think I asked for Sal's personal ATM pin based on the response I got. I was shocked and disgusted at the treatment I received from their customer service rep. I am a long time Spyderco customer, fan and advocate but they have completely squashed me over whatbis probably a $1 piece of plastic. I have had several Enduras over the years that were awesome knives and even though I was resolved to never buy a Manix or anything with the CBBL again I still respected Spyderco as a company. Well, not anymore.

I recently replaced my RAT-1 with a Cold Steel Recon 1 and I will never buy a Spyderco product again as long as I live. I went back and forth with this CS rep at Spyderco and I couldn't even get my request escalated to anyone with any authority to make a call to take care of a loyal, longtime customer. I feel like I was slapped in the face by this company and it makes me really angry because I want to love Spyderco. I have seen Sal respond with awesome information to many people here and I have a tremendous amount of respect for his innovation and generally high quality products. It is with a heavy heart that I completely disavow my loyalty to Spyderco.

I hope nobody else experiences the treatment I received from Spyderco. I don't know what I will do with this broken Manix 2. I feel like theowing it in the nearest garbage can. I may go to the hassle of sending it back to the company to get it fixed simply so I can turn right around and sell it but I surely will not insure it because at this point that knife means almost nothing to me and I wouldn't care a bit if it were lost in the mail. I just want to cut my losses as far as the CBBL is concerned. IMHO that lock flat-out sucks. I know Cold Steel's customer service has a bad rap and I had a negative experience with them myself over a broken pocket clip on an Ultimate Hunter but at least I know I can trust the Tri-Ad lock on my Recon 1.

Sorry for the negative post, I know a lot of you would probably disagree with me or say that it is fair that Spyderco doesn't want to just send me the plastic replacement part. I don't care, I have given them a lot of business and great word-of-mouth over the last 23 years or so and I felt like I might as well throw my story out there about this latest thing.

If anything else, I hope they discontinue that CBBL. I wish I never fell for it, I think it is trash and I hope nobody else gets conned into it. I wish they recalled all the CBBL knives, I would love to have my $100 back on this waste.

 

[buccilli15]

I've owned numerous Manixes, used them extensively, and have never experienced the failure that you mentioned. It does not, however, surprise me that the cage broke in the area that you mentioned--it is clearly a weak point. On the same note, under "normal" use, I'm not convinced that it would break. Dis-assembling / re-assembling, now yeah, I can definitely see some issues if it is your first time doing it.

In regards to their customer service..My numerous experiences over the years have been hit or miss. I've always called and it has usually been to check in on that status of knife in for repair/sharpening, or for a general question (e.g. if they have information pertaining to release dates, etc.). I can certainly say that while some experiences have been positive, far more have been negative. The negative experiences are more of receiving a rude attitude, almost like like I'm inconveniencing them. I can also say that while verbal interactions with their customer service team have been less than desirable, Sal has gone above and beyond on these forums as well as others, answering questions and interacting with us enthusiasts. I guess all companies that their flaws, but Sal is great, I love Spyderco's designs, they manufacture a quality products--Spyderco will continue to get my business.

 

[Armadew]

What bad treatment did you receive?

Seems to me they were great about replacing the first one even though you violated the warranty and broke it through your own negligence.

Are you saying they were rude to you? How?

 

[Spectre]

I'm sorry you were disappointed with the knife and the customer care response.

I've only had one issue that I contacted Spyderco Care over~ a lanyard tube that slipped out of the end of my Yojimbo- but that was promptly taken care of. Most customers who have contacted Spyderco have been very satisfied with the interaction. I hope at some point you'll consider giving them another chance.

I have used Manix 2s, Manix 2 LWs, and Manix 2 XLs especially, in some very rough environments, including some outright abuse, without any issues. I'm sorry that wasn't your experience.

Regards,

John

 

[Spectre]

Uncontrolled dump site, RC South, 2012.

I frequently cut pieces LNs were not allowed to have off scrap gear before allowing them to leave the base. Cutting industrial copper cable with a folding knife is of course blatant abuse. I only experienced a couple of tiny edge deformations from such treatment.

 

[scoutchris]

I bet a million to one they asked you to send the knife to them for evaluation. That's their standard practice now, they don't send anything but pocket clips and screws out to you anymore. If that was what happened, I wouldn't consider it crappy customer service, just not exactly what you wanted.

 

[Bryan J]

Your description of your interaction with Spyderco customer service lacks important details. Did they request you send your knife in for repair by an expert technician, or did they tell you to F--- off? I'm going to guess the former. Unfortunately, these knife companies need to adhere to positions that discourage end users from disassembling the knives in order to cover their legal bases. Offering to send internal replacement parts to customers could be seen as implicitly encouraging users to do their own repair work.

Regarding the ball bearing lock, I would counterbalance your plea that Spyderco discontinue it with my own plea: Spyderco, please come out with some new models and expand the number of knives that feature this lock!

 

[ejames13]

Writing off the design, much less the whole company, seems a little extreme. I could understand if you broke it, sent it in, they fixed it, and it broke again. But maybe you never got it back to factory spec after breaking it the first time.

In fairness, their policy explicitly states that their warranty does not cover damage caused by disassembly. They aren't obligated to send you the part a second time. I'm kind of surprised they sent one at all.

Why not just send it in and let them fix it, then draw conclusions from there?

 

[spketch]

The manix 2 can be completely broken down and reassembled with the right technique. If you do it wrong the plastic piece will break.
What likely happened is you cracked it reassembling last time and it didn't break completely until now.

I suggest sending it in for proper reassembly. If you decide to keep the knife and want to clean it well in the future, remove the screws, scale and liner from only one side. Clean that side, reassemble, and repeat on the opposite side. No need to remove the lock assembly.

I've received two used manix's (manices?) that were improperly disassembled and broken the same way by previous owners so I can see why Spyderco doesn't want users doing this job on their own.

Sorry to hear about your frustration.

 

[Michael Janich]

Dear Digital9ja:

We're very sorry to hear of your disappointment.

My office at Spyderco is just across the hall from our warranty repair center. I have also personally done warranty repairs on knives when employed by another knife company. While it would seem that knives are simple mechanical devices that can be easily disassembled and reassembled without compromising their function, that's often not the case. I have received many knives for warranty repair that were disassembled and put back together improperly or without key components. In some cases, the knives were reassembled improperly and used extensively before being returned. That use damaged the other components.

The bottom line is that we have no way of guaranteeing the skills or mechanical knowledge of a customer. While the vast majority of knife customers are indeed smart and skilled enough to reassemble their knives properly, the minority that don't have those skills and knowledge are a serious concern. Our warranty and parts replacement policies must therefore be oriented toward them.

It's also important to understand that the assemble of many of our knives is done with jigs and fixtures that ensure the proper alignment and orientation of parts. Without those fixtures, you can put your knife back together, but may not be able to ensure 100% perfect adjustment and function.

For these reasons, we do not provide internal replacement parts for our knives to our customers or dealers. If you would like to send your disassembled knife back to us, we can replace the broken part and reassemble it per our original factory specifications. Please just cite this forum entry when you return it so we can relate you and your knife to this specific issue.

Stay safe,

Mike

 

[Neko2]

Dear Digital9ja:

We're very sorry to hear of your disappointment.

My office at Spyderco is just across the hall from our warranty repair center. I have also personally done warranty repairs on knives when employed by another knife company. While it would seem that knives are simple mechanical devices that can be easily disassembled and reassembled without compromising their function, that's often not the case. I have received many knives for warranty repair that were disassembled and put back together improperly or without key components. In some cases, the knives were reassembled improperly and used extensively before being returned. That use damaged the other components.

The bottom line is that we have no way of guaranteeing the skills or mechanical knowledge of a customer. While the vast majority of knife customers are indeed smart and skilled enough to reassemble their knives properly, the minority that don't have those skills and knowledge are a serious concern. Our warranty and parts replacement policies must therefore be oriented toward them.

It's also important to understand that the assemble of many of our knives is done with jigs and fixtures that ensure the proper alignment and orientation of parts. Without those fixtures, you can put your knife back together, but may not be able to ensure 100% perfect adjustment and function.

For these reasons, we do not provide internal replacement parts for our knives to our customers or dealers. If you would like to send your disassembled knife back to us, we can replace the broken part and reassemble it per our original factory specifications. Please just cite this forum entry when you return it so we can relate you and your knife to this specific issue.

Stay safe,

Mike

Sounds like a great customer service gesture to me.
Send it in and see how it goes... or have them send it to me and I'll conduct a long term evaluation for you

 

[bearfacedkiller]

It sounds like you knowingly voided your warranty and now you want Spyderco to make an exception for you. Spyderco's policy is quite clear, they don't send out parts. Instead of being mad you could be grateful that they made an exception the first time. Even with the voiding of your warranty I would assume that if you had just sent it to them they would have sent it back fixed. Now you want to write off the whole company and one of it's designs. Seems drastic. I hope that you are just venting and will come around. Things are not always the way we want them but with the right attitude things have a way of working out. I suggest you just send it in and give them a chance to make it right. I have had only good experiences (sometimes slow) with Spyderco customer service. I hope you find some satisfaction through all this.

 

[digital9ja]

Thanks for the info everyone. I appreciate it. They did tell me to send it in for evaluation, etc but I personally do not feel like going to all that hassle over a little plastic piece. Honestly, I can understand them saying that as a first response but after I detailed my feelings about it and requested the matter be escalated someone at some point should realize that a longtime customer is more important than a tiny piece of plastic in, what I now consider to be, a bad design. I know I did not crack the first replacement switch I received that I installed myself. Once I realized how fragile it was I was extremely careful and I know I didn't break it installing it. I can certainly accept that as a possibilty, but in this case I don't believe that is what happened.

Anyway, Spyderco won't have to worry about me complaining about any of their products anymore. I will either try to get this fixed by sending it in someday or just sell it dirt cheap to anyone who wants to go through the hassle of returning it and trying to get it fixed. Thanks for the responses, I don't mean to offend anyone who loves Spyderco, I just wanted to relay this experience and state my very low opinion of the CBBL lock. I used to really love Spyderco and sing their priases to everyone before this happened so I can understand why people like their products and I think the owner of the customer has represented himself and his company really well in every instance I have seen. Unfortunately I feel slighted by the person who I interacted with and my last email to them has gone completely in the trash I guess. No response to date.

 

[Fanglekai]

Boxing and mailing a knife doesn't take long. They said they'll fix it. Send it in and let them take care of it.

 

[FriarPhenn]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around your logic, OP.

1. You violated the warranty terms by disassembling the knife and broke it in the process.
2. Spyderco CS went out of their way to accommodate you despite you having voided the warranty.
3. You think you assembled the knife correctly with the new piece—despite the fact that the Manix 2 is well known as one of the most complicated knives to break down and reassemble (see Spketch's post above).
4. You contacted Spyderco CS again, demanding another piece and, instead of acquiescing to your demands, they chose to follow their standard operating procedure and requested you send the knife in for repair. Again, all this despite you having already violated the warranty.
5. Because you "didn't feel like going to all that hassle over a little plastic piece," you requested an escalation of your issue to higher management (which, given that you had voided your warranty a long time ago and broken two of the same part, was completely unreasonable).
6. Spyderco CS rep stood by their standard operating procedure, which you interpreted as dissing you personally.
7. You came on BF to complain about customer service.
8. Michael Janich himself responded to your complaint, explained Spyderco's very rational process for dealing with these issues, and asked that you follow their standard operating procedure. Again, all AFTER you violated the warranty.

Sounds like you want special treatment because you've been a "valued customer."

You violated the warranty. The fact that you've been offered their warranty repair service more than once is a direct argument against your complaint.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Digital,

Sorry for your negative experience. If you send it in, we'll fix it for you.

On the design or the plastic piece, The model is one of our most popular and we've sold many thousands of knives with Caged ball bearings. We've had very few problems, and many compliments on the design and materials. .

Hope we can please you some time in the future.

sal

 

[mael333ca]

Hi Digital,

Sorry for your negative experience. If you send it in, we'll fix it for you.

On the design or the plastic piece, The model is one of our most popular and we've sold many thousands of knives with Caged ball bearings. We've had very few problems, and many compliments on the design and materials. .

Hope we can please you some time in the future.

sal

I'Ve just gotten my very first Manix LW last monday, the S110V model. Mister Glesser, it is indeed a wonderfull design! :thumbup:

 

[digital9ja]

I re-read some of the responses here and I must not have seen Mr. Janich's reply earlier. Everything you said makes sense, thank you very much for such a detailed reply. Mr. Glesser, you are an absolute class act, thank you very much for your offer to fix the knife. I do appreciate that. I know a girl who is a law enforcement officer and recently she has been saying she would like a new knife. Maybe I can give this one to her if I end up sending it back, unfortunately I just don't have any faith in that plastic switch anymore, IMHO it just should not be that fragile. Also I didn't know it was some violation of warranty to disassemble the knife when I bought it. I probably would not have got it to begin with if I knew that. I'm a machinist and I like to take things apart and see how they work and be familiar with all the inner workings. I have completely torn down and rebuilt the lockwork of my Smith and Wesson 686 and gotten the timing back perfectly so it sings like it should. I do an armorer's cleaning of my M1 Garand once a year, I stripped my SA XD9 down to every last roll pin, spring, etc and reassembled it and never had any problems at all. I'm not saying I'm perfect or that I couldn't have possibly made a mistake, but I'm also not some hack with no mechanical aptitude either.

I hold Spyderco in very high regard in almost every way possible. Some guys might have no problem sending a knife back, to me it is too much of a hassle. Especially for a knife I no longer have faith or interest in. But your explanations and your gesture to fix it is very much appreciated and I might come around and buy Spyderco again someday. Like I said, I always loved my lockback Enduras and I think you are a very innovative designer who generally puts out an outstanding product. I apologize if I irked anyone with this thread, but thanks to everyone who contributed positively.

 

[Wowbagger]

In fairness, their policy explicitly states that their warranty does not cover damage caused by disassembly. They aren't obligated to send you the part a second time. I'm kind of surprised they sent one at all.

I think that about covers it.
You could make a better caged ball bearing locking mechanism and install it.
Once you force a product apart that is clearly not designed to be disassemblable you are kind of on your own.

I am ALL FOR MODDING STUFF or home repairing stuff though.

I would have made a better caged ball bearing locking mechanism and installed it and went about my day.
First off I would put a bit lighter spring in it. I have had zero problem with the lock its self. Works flawlessly when ever I use it. The spring is a bit strong but these guys got me manned up enough to over come that . . . thank you gentlemen . . .

I don't need to take mine apart to clean it. Bit of a wash in the solvent tank and a quick blow dry with the compressed air. Good to go. I haven't even had to do that yet.

Come on digital9ja . . . make up a BETTER caged ball bearing locking mechanism and show it to us.

 

[Murphjd25]

There was a thread just a couple days ago on spyderco forums, some guys are getting together and having titanium cages made for the manix 2...could be worth checking out?