Spyderco H1 steel vs. VG10

T

TTpower

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Apr 20, 2007
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i'm thinking about getting a dragonfly 2 and i'm torn between the H1 steel and vg10. i know that the H1 steel is 100% rust proof but can anyone tell me what are the other pros and cons of the H1 and the VG10? is the H1 steel worth the extra $12? i don't live near a beach or in a humid environment that i would really need a super stainless steel but i would like to be able to wash my dragonfly with water and soap and forget about it. i have a delica 4 and i haven't tried washing it with water because i'm afraid that the internals would rust if i don't get them completely dry. i do like the yellow FRN :D
 
I live 100 meters from the sea and I use my VG-10 Endura often. I wash it with soap and water because I use it on food. No problems at all. Even my ZDP Endura is washed with soap and water and I just shake the excess water off.
 
I'd give H1 the nod on the Dragonfly platform for users that generally use their knife for a lot of tasks they probably should not (it is a fairly tough material that will put up with more abuse than other offerings in the platform).

For a user that will use it as a KNIFE for cutting and slicing, I would suggest VG-10 because it takes a very nice edge, and is maintained at a high level of sharpness quite easily (compared to H1, and ZDP-189).

ZDP-189 is fantastic stuff also, but many users report difficulty in properly maintaining the edge. It is also known to stain, but I think its poor stain resistance is over dramatized at times. Good stuff, but I do not recommend it to just anyone;)
 
TTpower said:

Spyderco H1 steel vs. VG10
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Technically H1 is not a steel as it has no carbon.


Being it can not be heat treated it really does not compare with high end steels.


That said, it has a place where corrosion resistance is paramount.





Big Mike
 
I would suggest that it can compare and in some regards it compares VERY favorably. There are many factors to consider.

Serrated edges for example. I am not sure anyone would argue that there is a finer material available than H1.

There are a few that would also suggest that it makes a great hard use material (such uses as a dive knife) because of its toughness.

To your point, you probably will not find many glowing evaluations of H1 for its fine edge holding abilities.
 
Big Mike said:
Technically H1 is not a steel as it has no carbon.


Being it can not be heat treated it really does not compare with high end steels.
Big Mike
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I'd get the H1 version just to try it out. I've heard good things about it taking a very sharp edge, and also about it's durability. My sweat will also rust AUS-8 in my pocket, so H1's big selling point would be of benefit if just on that alone, if I really minded rust all that much (I don't). Just to be a PITA knowitall, Spyderco thinks it has carbon (0.15%) and thinks it is heat treated (solution treated and precipitation hardened), though it may not be done by Spyderco. Precipitation hardening is common for nonferrous alloys, but less so in steels, though it is at least part of the reason for secondary hardening in steels that have an increase in hardness during tempering, like high speed steels and such.
 
me2 said:
Just to be a PITA knowitall, Spyderco thinks it has carbon (0.15%) and thinks it is heat treated (solution treated and precipitation hardened), though it may not be done by Spyderco. Precipitation hardening is common for nonferrous alloys, but less so in steels, though it is at least part of the reason for secondary hardening in steels that have an increase in hardness during tempering, like high speed steels and such.
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Then you know that at that level the carbon is more of an impurity then it is an alloying agent, and that heat is indeed used in precipitation hardening but it is not a form of heat treatment we associate with steel knife blades and the level of hardness we enjoy.







Big Mike
 
Big Mike said:
Then you know that at that level the carbon is more of an impurity then it is an alloying agent, and that heat is indeed used in precipitation hardening but it is not a form of heat treatment we associate with steel knife blades and the level of hardness we enjoy.
Big Mike
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That 0.15% is quite a bit to be considered an impurity, though generally I agree that it isn't the major hardening contributor, though it will certainly be a factor. If the mill wanted rid of it (as an impurity), steels with 0.03% C are readily made. In any case, 0.15% C is a far cry from no %C/can't be called steel. Similarly, not a form of heat treatment we associate with knives is quite different from cannot be heat treated. H1 is a great steel, with it's primary purposes being high strength and excellent corrosion resistance, both of which it meets very well. From some pictures I've seen, it also has excellent ductility for a knife steel. Again, I'd pick it over VG-10 if I was the least bit concerned about rust, which is a legitimate concern since the OP is on an island. I'd pick it just out of curiosity too, but that's just me. I'd probably soak it in saturated salt water for a month just to see what would happen (nothing I'd guess).
 
I didn't like the yellow FRN is the only reason I didn't get one, but if you like the color then I would go with H1 like many people have said. I have a different spyderco with H1 and I like the steel except the blade its self seems to get scratched more easily. That doesn't really bother me but it might some.
 
Monnymac said:
I didn't like the yellow FRN is the only reason I didn't get one, but if you like the color then I would go with H1 like many people have said. I have a different spyderco with H1 and I like the steel except the blade its self seems to get scratched more easily. That doesn't really bother me but it might some.
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I'd personally go VG10, as it's a great steel. I'm sort of tempted to try H1 at some times, but then I remember how I carry non stainless knives every day. Use them around water, sweat all over them, use them for food, swim with them, etc... and I don't have rust problems. So not sure why I'd need something that crazy rust resistant...
 
i guess its going to be a coin toss :D i also heard great things about the H1 and i think there are people who did soaked the H1 in salt water and never had rust.
 
me2 said:
That 0.15% is quite a bit to be considered an impurity, though generally I agree that it isn't the major hardening contributor, though it will certainly be a factor. If the mill wanted rid of it (as an impurity), steels with 0.03% C are readily made. In any case, 0.15% C is a far cry from no %C/can't be called steel. Similarly, not a form of heat treatment we associate with knives is quite different from cannot be heat treated. H1 is a great steel, with it's primary purposes being high strength and excellent corrosion resistance, both of which it meets very well. From some pictures I've seen, it also has excellent ductility for a knife steel. Again, I'd pick it over VG-10 if I was the least bit concerned about rust, which is a legitimate concern since the OP is on an island. I'd pick it just out of curiosity too, but that's just me. I'd probably soak it in saturated salt water for a month just to see what would happen (nothing I'd guess).
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i'm confused, i thought the H1 did not have carbon?
 
It has a little bit of carbon. One has to keep in mind that when we talk about steel, we are only looking at a very narrow selection from the perspective of knife knuts. Less than 0.4% carbon is MUCH more common than we tend to think for other uses. The standard grades of hardenable stainless steels have about 0.15%. These are steels like 410, 414, 420 (though here 0.15% is a minimum). These grades are used sometimes as cutlery, but not high end, enthusiast oriented cutlery like we know and love here. H1 has as much as these grades, according to the steel composition chart on Spyderco's website. I'm not sure where the "no carbon" idea got started, but as far as I know, Spyderco has never claimed it had no carbon. There is a perception that carbon causes rust that may have lead to the "no carbon" idea. That is not strictly true. One has to know what the carbon is doing.
 
In my experience, H-1 will deform and VG-10 will chip. Neither will rust much.
I spent most of my adult life working on fishing boats, so I do know a thing or two about rust.


EDIT: H-1 will deform and VG-10 will chip
 
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me2 said:
Less than 0.4% carbon is MUCH more common than we tend to think for other uses. The standard grades of hardenable stainless steels have about 0.15%. These are steels like 410, 414, 420 (though here 0.15% is a minimum). These grades are used sometimes as cutlery, but not high end, enthusiast oriented cutlery like we know and love here. H1 has as much as these grades, according to the steel composition chart on Spyderco's website.
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Lets talk steel for a moment:

Carbon steel and it's higher alloyed cousins are the steel of choice for knife blades, mostly because of it's ability to be heat treated to provide a good balance of hardness and toughness.

Usually we aim for a Rockwell C hardness between 58 - 62 on most modern knife blades, though that number is pushed even higher on some of the "supersteels".


The carbon content defines these steels; carbon steel by definition has between 0.2 and 2.1 percent carbon by weight, high carbon steel has a min. of approx. 0.6 percent or higher.

Let's look at the steels you mention.

410 (and 416) can barely achieve 50 Rc.

420 maxes out 55 Rc.

Spyderco does not give a harness number for H1, but says it's somewhere in the High 40's to low 50's.




Big Mike
 
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