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I'm guessing they must have been very picky about the hickory, then. Lots of tool handle makers left in the US making handles from Grade A hickory.
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Spyderco Hatchethawk
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I'm guessing they must have been very picky about the hickory, then. Lots of tool handle makers left in the US making handles from Grade A hickory.
From what Sal has said about it this was years in the making and he was personally very involved and very particular about everything. Evidently they couldn't find anyone in the US who could make the sheaths in quantity at th quality they demanded for reasonable prices. I think they said they've spent 8 years (iirc) from the initial stages of the product to now.
Anyway, it sounds like it's worth a shot. I was hoping the axe gurus here could shed some more light but it doesn't sound like many here want to even really consider it a decent tool.
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Got mine this morning, very nice package for sure. HatchetHawk made in the USA, I know we all new that, but the pouch is made in the USA too and it is actually very nice. Leather mask, from what I understand is made in Spain. HatchetHawk is Razor sharp, sliced paper with it. I posted my initial thoughts in the Spyderco section.
Mine should be there when i get home today. I'll try to post some comparison shots to other top of the line small axes.
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I'll be frank and say that this strikes me as a case of "perfect is the enemy of good". If not for shooting for a "boutique grade" degree of finishing then it probably could have been produced at a price that would have been a bit more accessible for use as a serious tool. I doubt that many are going to buy it for that purpose at that price point, which to me kind of defeats the point. But I'm a bargain hunter, personally, so I'm not really the target demographic.
Thanks, I would but don't have the equipment to do this very nice HatchetHawk justice. Looks super sexy laid out in the pouch.
Based on the one i got i cannot recommend. The quality is shoddy. Not from the manufacturing standpoint, but from the actual finishing of the hatchet. It kind of surprises me coming from spyderco. I have some pictures but right now I'm a little let down so i don't feel like talking much more about this. Even the sheath has flaws which i wouldn't care about coming with an ace $100 cheaper, but for about $175, this isn't acceptable. Hope others have better luck with theirs. It's going back and I'm going to peruse for a small council tool velvicut.
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I've not had good luck with Council. In fact, if they're doing the head that makes it less appealing than even an unknown. I don't want to buy premium priced axes when it's hit or miss with the heat treat. I tried two council's (velvicut and woodcraft) and both are crazy soft. Maybe Spydie will do a better job of QC?
Square_peg
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I hope you will give the tool a serious workout and then give us a review. Made of 5160 it should be a very durable tool. I don't think it's a bad choice. Probably a better value than most high-end hawks. But I still think there are better values out there if one is willing to do some work restoring a vintage piece.
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Or even some work tuning up a modern one.
I agree 100%
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Not to belabor the point - I have a Spyderco Dragonfly that I bought a few months ago in H1. I’ll sell it for $500 to anyone who’ll take it. Is it a good knife design ? Yes, absolutely. How’s H1 steel ? Outstanding for its intended purpose. Nothing wrong with the knife; it’s just that at a price of $ 500 the value for the money spent would be way outta whack. An exaggeration, but the point should be obvious.
I haven’t seen the new Spyderco branded production hatchet/hawk. Few others have either. If quality control does its job, it should do fine at its tasks. It looks a lot like other similar sized & designed tools. Nothing remarkable or particularly innovative, but nothing ridiculous either. Some hardcore Spyderco fans will probably lust over it.
That said, IMO value is one of the primary characteristics that should be considered with any purchase. Given that we don’t have the item in hand, value is the Only thing we can judge regarding a pretty much unremarkable item.
How I determine value ? By asking “ Can I do the same tasks as well or better by spending less money for something else ? “
I should add - In general, when it comes to axes, hatchets, and hawks - I am a user, not a collector. (Though I’ve strayed a few times, but very rarely.) If someone’s a collector, they likely have much different standards.
I haven’t seen the new Spyderco branded production hatchet/hawk. Few others have either. If quality control does its job, it should do fine at its tasks. It looks a lot like other similar sized & designed tools. Nothing remarkable or particularly innovative, but nothing ridiculous either. Some hardcore Spyderco fans will probably lust over it.
That said, IMO value is one of the primary characteristics that should be considered with any purchase. Given that we don’t have the item in hand, value is the Only thing we can judge regarding a pretty much unremarkable item.
How I determine value ? By asking “ Can I do the same tasks as well or better by spending less money for something else ? “
I should add - In general, when it comes to axes, hatchets, and hawks - I am a user, not a collector. (Though I’ve strayed a few times, but very rarely.) If someone’s a collector, they likely have much different standards.
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To me, that ‘lack of good hickory’ line sounds like baloney. (Who knows if Sal actually even said it.) Council seems to do o.k. finding wood.
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Well, that’s an excellent point. If someone doesn’t have the time, knowledge, or skill- they may not want to go the vintage route.
Who does as good or much better job on axes than Council currently ?
The old axe makers when such tools were the choice of the professionals - before the chainsaw.
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Square_peg
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For this size tool, as I already pointed out, Vaughan does as good or better job than Council. Vaughan no longer makes full size axes in America.
In the past 2 months I have purchased, hand filed and honed brand new products from both Council and Vaughan (Craftsman labeled). Both bits were about equally hard, about 53 RC. Both took and held great edges. After 20-some test swings into well seasoned Doug Fir the Vaughan hatchet still easily shaved, as though I hadn't used it at all.
Both the Council and the Vaughan exhibited no hard or soft spots during filing. They were very evenly hardened across the entire bit.
But it's when you get into the hammer face that I would favor the Vaughan over a Council 5160 tool. Vaughan uses 1080 for their hammer faces and they are extremely experienced in hardening these hammer faces. I've used Vaughan hammers professionally for over 30 years. Swung dozens of them. Currently own 4 or 5 of them. I have beat the heck out of these hammers and abused them uncountable times. I've never had a face chip or mushroom. I wouldn't expect 5160 to be able to do that even with a perfect heat treat (and I suspect Council has the experience to put a perfect heat treat on 5160).
But it comes down to value. You can buy a brand new Vaughan riggers hatchet on Amazon for less than $33. I guarantee it will be a tougher tool than the Spyderco tool that costs $175. The Spyderco buyer is spending an extra $140 on 'tacticool' and nothing else. As long as the buyer realizes this and is good with it than no harm done. We all have our own likes and dislikes. I like value.
DavidZ
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Your exaggeration does not make the point at all. It is flawed logic, and your example is not equatable at all to this example. If all dragonfly H1's were 500.00 you would not buy it, and they all are not. You paid exactly what you were willing to pay for it, and no more. Using your flawed logic, you could tape a handle to a lid from a can of tuna you just opened, and they are sharp and will cut! Only you can determine an items value to you. You cannot evaluate value for anyone else. Your determination of value is only your opinion as you stated above, and we thank you for your opinion.
Or how about one laying at a local yard-sale or garage-sale for a dollar? There are so many USA-made second-hand half-hatchets laying around my area for one or two dollars that I don't buy them anymore as I would not have room to store them. I just find it mind-boggling that anyone buys any new axes or hatchets at all with so many used ones laying around that are as good or better quality as any currently made.
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You apparently missed the point entirely of the exaggerated example. - - That point is, that value is part of the calculation as to whether a product gets a thumbs up or a thumbs down. The OP asked people’s opinions. Since few have one of these in hand, value is just about all we can judge it on at this point. It looks basically like a lot of other options out there. No one called the design hideous (from what we can tell from just photos.) Several people, including myself, gave the opinion that we don’t think it’s worth the price, it lacks value to us. Apparently the OP didn’t like that reply and wanted us to make other judgments on a tool that few have touched.
I agree that value is entirely subjective. If someone is a big Spyderco fan, it may be entirely worth it to them. If someone is a collector, other collectors may bid up the price in a few years. The OP likely got the responses he did because this tends to be a hardcore axe forum.
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