spyderco manix 2. why is the lock so hard? and why is it made out of plastic?

[JNewell]

I agree about the lack of reports of broken cages on Manix 2s. My memory is far from perfect, but I remember exactly one report of a broken cage. If it had happened, you can be sure we would have read threads here or at SF, and they would have been long and heated threads.

I *have* read threads about people who took a Manix 2 apart, put it back together incorrectly, and broke the peg off the inside of the cage, but that is absolutely different.

I think broken Manix 2 cages are extraordinarily rare.

That doesn't mean the design can't be tweaked, just that there's nothing "wrong" with it as it is now. :thumbup: Fortunately Spyderco is never content to simply coast on past success, so if there's a way to make this better I'm sure we'll see it.

Not trying to start anything here, but I'd love to see/hear anything more about broken cages from knives being dropped. The only example I can find is over on Spyderco's forums where VanHash was torture testing his (over-strikes) and the cage had already been boiled (to RIT dye it - that actually answers my question) and he questioned whether or not the boiling had caused damage.

http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?p=665133

I can't find another example of a broken cage anywhere with google, and I'd be very interested in reading the background on one. Just looking at it, the cage barely protrudes from the scales (one of the reasons for the lack of grip), so for a fall to break the cage, it would have to have been a heck of a distance with some serious shock.

 

[neuron]

Sal, my feeling is the ridges on the covers need to be sharper to afford a better grip due to the stiffness of the spring tension. Its fine when your hands are dry but a little bit of sweat, grease, water etc can radically affect one's ability to close the knife easily. In comparison to the liner and compression lock which are easy to operate even under those circumstances. That's my two cents on it...

Small gripping surface + slick gripping surface + strong spring tension + lubricant of whatever kind = tricky

This -- and especially the part in bold -- is exactly my feeling as well. I've owned quite a few Manix 2's (at least a dozen) and handled quite a few more than that. On a few of them, the locks have been easy to disengage with sweaty/wet/etc. hands, but on the rest there have been varying degrees of difficulty as Buffalohump describes.

I also agree that the ease of gripping the lock could probably be improved substantially by making the texturing on the polymer cage more aggressive. Another, not necessarily incompatible, change would be to make the cage slightly wider so it protrudes outward more (and perhaps at more of an angle). I think the design and materials (including the clear polymer cage) of the lock are great; the things outlined above would simply be small changes to the shape of the cage that would facilitate ease of manipulation under a variety of circumstances.

 

[Nervedmg]

It's funny this thread showed up because my manix 2 just broke. A ball bearing came out of the lock. It still locks but there is serious play up and down and no tension when closed. The lock is also very hard to disengage now. It happened during normal opening. The knife is about a month old. No abuse.

I think the plastic buttons are quite strong but the stuff underneath is not. And it is more complex than the standard liner or back lock.

I have contacted spyderco. Waiting to hear back before I attempt to repair it.

 

[berserk87]

It's funny this thread showed up because my manix 2 just broke. A ball bearing came out of the lock. It still locks but there is serious play up and down and no tension when closed. The lock is also very hard to disengage now. It happened during normal opening. The knife is about a month old. No abuse.

I think the plastic buttons are quite strong but the stuff underneath is not. And it is more complex than the standard liner or back lock.

I have contacted spyderco. Waiting to hear back before I attempt to repair it.

I don't understand - you said "a" ball bearing came out. There is only one in the lock. Are you saying that there is more than one ball bearing? I don't see how the lock would work at all without the ball bearing. The ball bearing is what stops the blade from moving. How is yours locking without it?

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Nervedmg,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum. Sorry you're having a problem with your knife.

If the ball bearing is gone, the lock is gone. The ball bearing is the lock. I would suggest sending it in to Spyderco customer service. If you take it apart to try to fix it yourself, you'll void the warrantee.

sal

 

[HardTripper]

It's funny this thread showed up because my manix 2 just broke. A ball bearing came out of the lock. It still locks but there is serious play up and down and no tension when closed. The lock is also very hard to disengage now. It happened during normal opening. The knife is about a month old. No abuse.

I think the plastic buttons are quite strong but the stuff underneath is not. And it is more complex than the standard liner or back lock.

I have contacted spyderco. Waiting to hear back before I attempt to repair it.

Ummmmm fake? Troll?

 

[Dorito Monk]

Ummmmm fake? Troll?

I'm always a little suspicious about posts like that. I'm not saying or even implying that he's full of crap, I'm just saying that posts like that raise a lot of questions.

"Oh god my knife blade just fell apart for no reason during totally normal use it just happened by itself I don't understand why it did that what a piece of crap! :grumpy:"

"What were you doing with your knife when it broke apart?"

"I was smacking it with a brick in order to baton it through a cinder block, which is a totally normal non-abusive use for this knife! "

"Ah, mystery solved. "

So one must ask some questions: What were you doing when the ball bearing fell out of the lock? Had you taken the knife apart at any point prior to that? What, specifically, happened when the ball bearing fell out (it's surrounded on all sides by a plastic cage - was the cage removed, damaged, etc?)?

 

[HardTripper]

" Wow what a coincidence, this thread just popped up while my knife in question just fell apart in an impossible way. This is a perfect time for my first post ever directed at the president of the company of the knife that impossibly broke."

 

[Nervedmg]

Hi Nervedmg,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum. Sorry you're having a problem with your knife.

If the ball bearing is gone, the lock is gone. The ball bearing is the lock. I would suggest sending it in to Spyderco customer service. If you take it apart to try to fix it yourself, you'll void the warrantee.

sal

Hi Sal,

Thanks for responding. I don't actual know how the knife works but a ball bearing fell out of it when I was opening it. I did find and keep the ball bearing. I did contact customer service over the weekend so I am sure they will contact me soon. I wouldn't take it apart unless I know customer service can't help me.

I figured I would post this since this is a thread discussing the quality and sturdiness of the knife's lock. I dont normal post because I dont normally have anything to input.

I have about 10 other spyderco knives that have been opened and used a lot more and all are high quality. I think this is an anomaly.

@everyone else:

Clearly, you are the reason why many people decide not to post. Most logical adults avoid these forums because they are overrun with jackasses. You are discussing the quality of the knife but if someone has first hand experience with it, you jump down their throat. I am just telling you my story. If you read it, you would have learned that it happened during normal operation. Nor did I criticize anyone/thing inappropriately.

specically,

@dorito monk - if you read my post, it broke during normal operation. AKA I opened the knife with my hand. No hydraulic lifts were used. It wasnt smacked on something. I never took it apart or even thought about taking it apart if that would affect it. When i opened it the blast grips appeared loose for the first time and it was extra difficult to disengage. Then I saw a ball bearing had fallen out.

@berserker - i dont know. i dont even know what all the parts are inside the knife. i just know a ball bearing fell out. the grips are lose. the blade can open and lock but it is wiggly. the knife will slide out of the handle when closed if it is jostled.

@hardtripper - you are the only troll I see. why dont you go try to improve yourself (you have a lot of work ahead you), instead of wasting space on the board with useless clutter.

 

[EZ Bake]

Hi Sal,

Thanks for responding. I don't actual know how the knife works but a ball bearing fell out of it when I was opening it. I did find and keep the ball bearing. I did contact customer service over the weekend so I am sure they will contact me soon. I wouldn't take it apart unless I know customer service can't help me.

I figured I would post this since this is a thread discussing the quality and sturdiness of the knife's lock. I dont normal post because I dont normally have anything to input.

I have about 10 other spyderco knives that have been opened and used a lot more and all are high quality. I think this is an anomaly.

@everyone else:

Clearly, you are the reason why many people decide not to post. Most logical adults avoid these forums because they are overrun with jackasses. You are discussing the quality of the knife but if someone has first hand experience with it, you jump down their throat. I am just telling you my story. If you read it, you would have learned that it happened during normal operation. Nor did I criticize anyone/thing inappropriately.

specically,

@dorito monk - if you read my post, it broke during normal operation. AKA I opened the knife with my hand. No hydraulic lifts were used. It wasnt smacked on something. I never took it apart or even thought about taking it apart if that would affect it. When i opened it the blast grips appeared loose for the first time and it was extra difficult to disengage. Then I saw a ball bearing had fallen out.

@berserker - i dont know. i dont even know what all the parts are inside the knife. i just know a ball bearing fell out. the grips are lose. the blade can open and lock but it is wiggly. the knife will slide out of the handle when closed if it is jostled.

@hardtripper - you are the only troll I see. why dont you go try to improve yourself (you have a lot of work ahead you), instead of wasting space on the board with useless clutter.

Easy there big guy - no one specifically called you out, but there was just some suspicious details about your post. If a ball bearing fell out, and the knife still locks up (since the only ball-bearing in the knife is what causes it to lock up), it looks as if you're either confused as to what happened, or not telling the truth.

I'm not saying that you are doing either of those things, just that it comes off that way. If the grips were loose (I'm not sure what you mean by "blast grips"), then the knife might have been taken apart before you got it or it could just have been one of those that slipped by QC and had an issue.

If I'm not mistaken, the liners are what keep the ball bearing in-place and not the cage (it's been a while since I had mine apart). The cage is just there to give you a grip on the ball-bearing (again, going by memory - I can't remember if this is the case for sure or not). So for the ball bearing to fall out, something major had to be wrong - i.e. the liners were loose enough that they allowed for it to come out, or a ball bearing of the wrong size was in there.

Most of the folks in here are fans of Spyderco and get a litte defensive over claims that sound far-fetched, but don't take anything too seriously - it is after all, the Interwebz.

Here are some questions:

Did you buy the knife new (and from a reputable place / you know for sure it's not a fake Spyderco)?

Have you ever taken the knife apart before?

Do you have any pics (I saw that you've already posted pics of some of your Spydies - can you post pics of the Manix 2)? This is really just for my morbid curiosity as to what happened.

If your claim is legit and you did nothing wrong, then have no fear - Spyderco will take care of you.

 

[EZ Bake]

Oh, and welcome to the forums

 

[Nervedmg]

Here are some questions:

Did you buy the knife new (and from a reputable place / you know for sure it's not a fake Spyderco)? AMAZON

Have you ever taken the knife apart before? NO

Do you have any pics (I saw that you've already posted pics of some of your Spydies - can you post pics of the Manix 2)? This is really just for my morbid curiosity as to what happened.

If your claim is legit and you did nothing wrong, then have no fear - Spyderco will take care of you.

pictures cant say much because it is in the action of the knife. that is as far as the blade can be open without disengaging the lock first. the blade will also slide out that far when closed because there is no tension. you can see a ball bearing there. the little plastic grips slide side-to-side and are wiggly. it does lock, i have not put a lot of downward force on it for fear of breaking it, but normal pressure doesnt fold the knife without disengaging the lock mechanism. there is significant blade play up and down.

i cant take a good picture but it looks to me like the ball bearing was in between the two plastic pieces. it is hard to tell without taking it apart. the ball bearing has popped out and the 2 plastic pieces or part of the spring are now what is stopping the blade from closing and opening. now that i have seen the internal schematic on spyderco website that is what I believe happened. http://spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/knifeanatomy.php

I also have to add that the 'ball bearing is the lock' responses are not entirely accurate. the ball bearing is wedged between the 2 plastic guards and there is a spring. the blade will not function correctly if any of those components are removed. it is not only the ball bearing.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Nervedmg,

Sorry for the confusion. The "locking" action is trapping the ball between the tang of the blade and the roof of the handle. That's what I meant. The purpose of the cage is to disengage the ball when it's "trapped". Yes, the cage can be "in the way" but it is not really locking the blade.

On the suspicion, Please try to be patient. We do have some new posters that come in to see if they can rile up the forum.

sal

 

[Dorito Monk]

@everyone else:

Clearly, you are the reason why many people decide not to post. Most logical adults avoid these forums because they are overrun with jackasses. You are discussing the quality of the knife but if someone has first hand experience with it, you jump down their throat. I am just telling you my story. If you read it, you would have learned that it happened during normal operation. Nor did I criticize anyone/thing inappropriately.

specically,

@dorito monk - if you read my post, it broke during normal operation. AKA I opened the knife with my hand. No hydraulic lifts were used. It wasnt smacked on something. I never took it apart or even thought about taking it apart if that would affect it. When i opened it the blast grips appeared loose for the first time and it was extra difficult to disengage. Then I saw a ball bearing had fallen out.

No need to get all butt hurt over this, it's just an internet forum.

I asked for a little clarification of what exactly you were doing with it because a lot of folks have very different definitions of 'normal operation'. You might be surprised at the number of folks who literally think that taking their knife into their backyard and wailing on it with a 2x4 is 'normal operation', then are totally confounded when their knife breaks. Hence, it never hurts to ask.

 

[EZ Bake]

pictures cant say much because it is in the action of the knife. that is as far as the blade can be open without disengaging the lock first. the blade will also slide out that far when closed because there is no tension. you can see a ball bearing there. the little plastic grips slide side-to-side and are wiggly. it does lock, i have not put a lot of downward force on it for fear of breaking it, but normal pressure doesnt fold the knife without disengaging the lock mechanism. there is significant blade play up and down.

i cant take a good picture but it looks to me like the ball bearing was in between the two plastic pieces. it is hard to tell without taking it apart. the ball bearing has popped out and the 2 plastic pieces or part of the spring are now what is stopping the blade from closing and opening. now that i have seen the internal schematic on spyderco website that is what I believe happened. http://spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/knifeanatomy.php

I also have to add that the 'ball bearing is the lock' responses are not entirely accurate. the ball bearing is wedged between the 2 plastic guards and there is a spring. the blade will not function correctly if any of those components are removed. it is not only the ball bearing.

Make no mistake - the ball bearing is absolutely the lock. The plastic grips (I assume you're talking about the clear plastic) are actually the cage. This is not a lock. Do not use the knife in its current state. Not that you would, but that clear-plastic piece (which is all one piece) is just the container for the ball bearing. So while it's inhibiting the knife from working, it is definitely not a lock in any way so be careful.

The ball-bearing is what retains the knife in the opened and closed position, so that explains why it's not staying closed. The cage is falling into where the ball-bearing should be, so that's what is making it difficult to open/close.

How in the heck it came out is the question that has me really curious. Do you remember at exactly what location it came out? My guess is that it almost had to have come out from between the tang and the back-spacer (either an out-of-spec back-spacer or tang-slot... possibly a ball-bearing that was too small). I can't honestly think of another way it could have come out other than the knife having been taken apart or the entire knife being so extremely loose that it could have fallen down from between the liners.

So the question(s) remain -
Did you buy the knife new?
Have you ever had it apart?

 

[Nervedmg]

never took it apart. bought it new from amazon -- i think after christmas. when i opened the knife, the plastic cages were loose and i could feel there was a problem. the cages were wiggly and i found the ball bearing on my lap.

it is possible for things to break or malfunction without some negative force causing it. maybe spyderco will place this manix in the natural history museum as it is so anamolist it is borderline blasphomous.

i was going to use the knife to complete an autoposy on a yeti fetus but thankful you told me it is not useable in its current state. thanks for the heads-up d00d.

 

[EZ Bake]

never took it apart. bought it new from amazon -- i think after christmas. when i opened the knife, the plastic cages were loose and i could feel there was a problem. the cages were wiggly and i found the ball bearing on my lap.

it is possible for things to break or malfunction without some negative force causing it. maybe spyderco will place this manix in the natural history museum as it is so anamolist it is borderline blasphomous.

i was going to use the knife to complete an autoposy on a yeti fetus but thankful you told me it is not useable in its current state. thanks for the heads-up d00d.

Now that I think about it, you're right. It certainly seems like these forums are being overrun with jackasses now.

 

[JNewell]

never took it apart. bought it new from amazon -- i think after christmas. when i opened the knife, the plastic cages were loose and i could feel there was a problem. the cages were wiggly and i found the ball bearing on my lap.

it is possible for things to break or malfunction without some negative force causing it. maybe spyderco will place this manix in the natural history museum as it is so anamolist it is borderline blasphomous.

i was going to use the knife to complete an autoposy on a yeti fetus but thankful you told me it is not useable in its current state. thanks for the heads-up d00d.

I have never tried to keep track of this issue, but it seems to me that a noticeable number of problems are reported with knives purchased through Amazon. It makes me wonder whether these knives were returned by previous buyers with problems and then re-sold as new - which is not supposed to happen but may happen anyway - and then wind up being the subject of threads here and elsewhere.

 

[RevDevil]

I have never tried to keep track of this issue, but it seems to me that a noticeable number of problems are reported with knives purchased through Amazon. It makes me wonder whether these knives were returned by previous buyers with problems and then re-sold as new - which is not supposed to happen but may happen anyway - and then wind up being the subject of threads here and elsewhere.

It has been anecdotally reported by a lot of people.


Thanks EZ Bake.

 

[Mud Shrimp Moe]

For the record, I believe Nervedmg is telling the truth, particularly after seeing the pics. I own and love a Manix2, but I don't expect anything to be perfect or infallable. Spyderco (i.e. Sal) has offered to look at the knife. Maybe something can be learned from this.