Spyderco Manix, over priced?

WadeF

WadeF

Joined
Apr 12, 2000
Messages
2,116
I was in a brick and mortar store today looking at a bunch of fine knives. I wanted to make a purchase there to support them, but I felt their prices were way out of line. They had the new Spydero Manix for $185! :eek: I can get one from New Graham for $115 and change. ?! That's like $70 more. That type of mark up seems absurd. I watched someone pay $70 for a Kershaw Chive. I know these places have to make money, and I work in retail and I know how it is, but come on now. $145 would have been a reasonable price for a place like that, but $185? Am I being critical or does this seem excessive? I'd really like to support my local knife shops, even though this one is about a 2 hour drive, but I can't justify that big of a difference. Do any of these online places sell 2nd class merchandise, or would New Graham be selling the exact same product for $70 less?

Anyway, awesome knife! :) What a beast. I think I might have to pick one up, even though it's larger than what I'd normally like to carry.

Also I might not feel the need to rant about this place if it wasn't for when I asked if they ever go on bladeforums.com that they responded with "When we have the time to go through all the dribble there" or something along those lines.

You'd think they'd be like "Oh! You're a bladeforum.com member? We'll give you a 10% discount!" or something nice "You must know your stuff!" etc, they just are like "Ha, that place, haha, pff..."

*Edited subject as to not imply Spyderco is asking to much for their knife. I now understand this store is simply charging the retail price, I just didn't even think the price they were asking was retail, it seemed like it was higher than the MSRP should be.
 
wade -

I thought you meant to say the folder was overpriced. But it's the retail store you are referring to, correct?
 
The Chesapeake Knife & Tool by me often has stuff well above MSRP. Basic Sebenzas for $450. Emerson Kerambit for $280. CRKTs for $90.

I find that to be an acceptable business decision, if a despicable ethical one.

With one of the old stores that I used to go to, I would go play with the knives (which were all priced at MSRP) with the intention of buying online. I would always pick up something cheaper (Militec-1, RenWax, diamond sharpeners) to compensate the store for its time.

With Chesapeake, I have no moral compunctions to do the same thing. If you're going to ask (and get) sometimes 25-50% OVER MSRP, then I have no ethical issue with wasting your time.

Just my $0.02.

-jon
 
biogon said:
The Chesapeake Knife & Tool by me often has stuff well above MSRP. ... I find that to be an acceptable business decision, if a despicable ethical one.
-jon
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Despicable? That's harsh. They're not holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy a knife. Maybe they have high overhead, maybe they just want to make more $$$ so they can retire to the Bahamas. Either way, it's not DESPICABLE. It's just business ... free economy .. capitalism ... etc. Making $25 on a knife is OK, and making $50 is unethical somehow? I don't buy it.
 
No, I'm 110% for Adam Smith and his free hand of the market.

It's just my personal belief and opinion that it is a despicable thing to do. And I act accordingly.

I don't agree with taking advantage of an uneducated buying population, if only for the fact that it can engender poor faith when they find out you actually charged MORE than the manufacturer's recommended price, rare as it happens.

I bought my first knife, a CRKT M16Z3, for $80, well above MSRP. When I found out, I never, EVER bought from that store again and I told everyone about how they pretty much cheat their customers.

Sure, there's a sucker born every minute, and you're welcome to take advantage of it.

However, it's not a decision that I, personally, would be comfortable making, on ethical grounds. I don't like being taken advantage of, and I don't like taking advantage of people.

I don't want to go to my car dealer and have them charge me $6,000 for a $3,000 fix just because I didn't know better. I'm sure they're welcome to do so and I would probably never find out, but, personally?

I don't like it. And I would do the same to others. That's all.

-j
 
I think that's the price of information. Not many people will buy those "quality knives", and most of those who buy such knives do not know the "street prices" of these knives. If the situation is like that, overpricing the knives may make more profit.

Here is a funnier story: Once upon a time, One guy who's pretty active on this forum (name omited) tried to trade a knife street-priced around $60 for my busse AS, while asking me to add an additional $30 to "even" the trade. And when I refused, he claimed that the knife's MSRP is about $160 and "this is another example how internet dealers screw up the knife market" :eek:
 
Don't forget: real retailers are offering a service that online vendors can't: instant delivery. How much will an online retailer charge you for next day delivery? An extra $25? ... $50? How much will they charge you for delivery in the next 30 seconds? Doesn't matter, because they can't do it. That's really what you're paying extra for when you buy from a real store. If you don't care when you get your knife, then get it online and pay less. If you want it in your hands NOW, then you have to pay more.
 
I think the most important service a local retailer provides is that you can actually try the knife in you hands before you make the decision.

That's why I always go to a local store and try the knives before I place orders on internet. :D
 
I think MSRP generally has a decent amount of profit and overhead built in. Certainly, mall store fronts are extremely expensive, but what you get is traffic and exposure.

You and I know that we can get them for less online, and WE pay for more for "instant delivery". That having been said... I can find any number of online stores who charge for a decent production knife, PLUS overnight delivery, for less than MSRP + 50%.

The average Joe probably doesn't. I honestly don't ever pay overnight shipping for these things. I bet the average Joe would give up instant delivery for 30% OFF MSRP, instead of 50% OVER MSRP. He just doesn't have those options, perhaps because he never grew up with computers, or never had access to them.

Is that necessarily "fair"? No... So you say that life isn't fair? Well... true.

But it doesn't mean we have to be a$$holes, either.

The whole Internet thing is not new -- mail order has been around forever. Besides that, there's still a lot of fixed expenses that the mail order retailer must account for so that it's not just the brick and mortar storefront that's the only expense.

What the Internet (and its retailers) DOES provide is an extremely low cost of entry, and national availability. If they can do it, then that's just free hand of the market again. B&M retailers have to figure out a way to compensate for all the people who will go to the store, fondle knives, and order online. If it involves raising their prices to beyond MSRP, that's their decision. I just won't shop there. In addition, it can't be good for business to keep raising prices.

I think it would be better for them to develop more efficient sourcing, inventorying, and... perhaps... better customer service.

I've received 100x better (more knowledgable, more polite, quicker) customer service from the vast majority of online dealers than in-store ones.

I guess my point is this: They can do it. I've run a business (albeit not in retail) and I prefer to be honest rather than make a quick buck. I will admit to looking down on folks who want to make a quick buck at the expense of others.

-j
 
lreed said:
I think the most important service a local retailer provides is that you can actually try the knife in you hands before you make the decision.

That's why I always go to a local store and try the knives before I place orders on internet. :D
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That is an excellent point.

But I agree and disagree here in a number of ways...

1- Like I said, for "fair" stores, I did this but I bought something small... a flashlight, maintenance stuff, classic SAK, whatever. For "unfair" stores, they're making enough money off everyone else I don't bother.

2- Most (if not all) online stores have a fairly liberal return policy.

3- These days, I ask to swap knives with an online buddy if I want to try one out. Luckily, this process is at my disposal... ;)

-jon
 
biogon said:
That is an excellent point.

Like I said, for "fair" stores, I did this but I bought something small... a flashlight, maintenance stuff, classic SAK, whatever. For "unfair" stores, they're making enough money off everyone else I don't bother.
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Oh yeah, always get some socks after playing with knives there, it's an outdoor store. ;)
 
*laugh*

That's awesome... I'll have to remember that.

I can always use a new pair of socks. ;)

-j
 
WadeF said:
Also I might not feel the need to rant about this place if it wasn't for when I asked if they ever go on bladeforums.com that they responded with "When we have the time to go through all the dribble there" or something along those lines.

You'd think they'd be like "Oh! You're a bladeforum.com member? We'll give you a 10% discount!" or something nice "You must know your stuff!" etc, they just are like "Ha, that place, haha, pff..."
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You feel the need to rant about that place? $185 is the retail price of a Manix. Retail price is what you pay in a retail store.
Speaking of dribble, you must know your stuff, and deserve a discount, seeing how you participate in a forum open to whatever idiot wanders in, and where people start threads ranting about retail stores charging retail prices and ripping people off by doing so, titled to make it seem like something is wrong with the knife itself, and complaining about nothing.
They don't have a problem, you do.
 
OwenM said:
You feel the need to rant about that place? $185 is the retail price of a Manix. Retail price is what you pay in a retail store.
Speaking of dribble, you must know your stuff, and deserve a discount, seeing how you participate in a forum open to whatever idiot wanders in, and where people start threads ranting about retail stores charging retail prices and ripping people off by doing so, titled to make it seem like something is wrong with the knife itself, and complaining about nothing.
They don't have a problem, you do.
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Yeah, I expected a little flammage with this post. :) I guess my problem is I work in retail, only part time now (was full time for 7 years, 47 hours a week), and I would sell $700 video cameras and we would make $30-50 on them. Then I see this place making at least $70 on a knife and it's hard for me to justify that in my mind. However, if $185.00 is the retail price I feel a little better, but in this day it's hard to believe people would charge retail. With the Internet breathing down retailer's necks you would think more places would try and be more competitive, but maybe they are doing just fine at their current markup. I know where I work we get people haggling with us over a video camera that we price for say $699.99, because they see it on the Internet for $579 or something crazy. The difference there is the $579 price is for a grey market product, which was supposed to be sold in a different country. For people who buy something like that they may have no warranty and take a chance. The same video camera would probably be $799.99 or $899.99 at Circuit City. We sell below msap (the minimum suggested advertised price) and don't advertise. We're a very large photography/video store and specialize in photography and video equipment. This knife place I went to was a large knife store, so I guess I expected them to have better prices than a mall store, etc.

Oh well, just thought I'd write some more dribble. :)
 
I worked in a cutlery store, and everything we sold was at MSRP.

The problem we ran ino was that wholesale is going up and retail is staying the same. Markup is getting smaller and smaller, so I guess some retailers just increase their price to match.
 
Steven Roos said:
The problem we ran ino was that wholesale is going up and retail is staying the same. Markup is getting smaller and smaller, so I guess some retailers just increase their price to match.
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Now that is interesting to me... Really? These were substantial (i.e. > 1-3% increases over a couple of year) increase?

That would explain some things, at least.

-j
 
WadeF said:
Yeah, I expected a little flammage with this post. :) I guess my problem is I work in retail, only part time now (was full time for 7 years, 47 hours a week), and I would sell $700 video cameras and we would make $30-50 on them. Then I see this place making at least $70 on a knife and it's hard for me to justify that in my mind. However, if $185.00 is the retail price I feel a little better, but in this day it's hard to believe people would charge retail. With the Internet breathing down retailer's necks you would think more places would try and be more competitive, but maybe they are doing just fine at their current markup. I know where I work we get people haggling with us over a video camera that we price for say $699.99, because they see it on the Internet for $579 or something crazy. .......
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Wade this is not exactly a fair comparrison. Having a friend that works in a large photo retail chain I know that they make very little on the cameras / video cameras. Where they make their money os on the accessories that go with the camera. Compare the price for the accessories in the store and on the internet and you will see where the profit is built in.

Storefronts have higher costs to cover than internet retailers do so they charge more than the internet. I am fortunate enough to live near a Knife specialy to store (grand prairie knives who posts to thse forums) they also have an internet store. There was a local chain which openedup in the malls here a couple years ago and their prices were very high. I walked in there a ouple of times to find 100 knives marked up to 170 or so. They would knock 10%off when you asked about a knife and make it look like you were getting a deal. They were in business in the malls here for maybe a year.

Now the otehr shop is still alive and well. Imake allmy knife purchases there and don't even botehr researching prices becasue I know from past experience they are very fair and that I am not going to find it on the net much cheaper. I also apprecieate the opportunity to handle and examine the knives Imay be interested in. There have been several times that I a knife has caught my eye but when I actually got it in hand I was underwhelmed by it and decided not to buy. If you fnd a good place that has fair prices I say support them even if you can save a couple of bucks ordering over the internet. That said if a place is price gouging dont support them and the market will take acre of it because they will not make enough off their knife sales to make it a profitable part of the business.
 
There is a hardware store I go to who will price match Internet pricing. This is for high end items like air nailers, power tools and such. Now, I realize this is not a knife store. It used to be that nobody would price match Internet prices, but it seems more and more place are willing to budge a little bit. I at least give them the opportunity, and if they do I always go back for other items. This is a small community on an island, so we all work together ....... you give a little, I give a little and we all make our mortgage payments without having to move in to "town". In most cases I'll buy it even if they don't match it all the way. I factor in time I have to wait, any shipping costs, if I have to take a ferry boat trip into town, gas, etc, etc, etc. When I can, I like to support the local businesses, but I'm not going to go broke doing it if I don't have to.

I only do this with bigger ticket items, not everything. I don't mind a few bucks here or there, but when an item is priced well above what I could pay somewhere else .... I'll go somewhere else. It's nothing personal, it's a business/money decision for me too. But in the end, they get a steady customer and move merchandise and I get what I need/want at a reasonable price.
 
I guess I should have asked them if they would do any better with their price. I didn't give them that chance. I feel bad now about starting this topic and I did it after a long day of driving around. Maybe I was feeling bummed out because I was excited to check out this knife store that was 2 hours away from me and claimed to have the largest selection in the area. I really wanted to support them and buy something from them, but I'm not the type to haggle over price. Oh well, if that's the way they want to run their business and they can survive, more power to them. They just won't get any business from me. I also felt ripping on Bladeforums wasn't appropriate. It's good enough for Sal of Spyderco and other big name customer knife makers, but not good enough for them? Basically what that said to me is we don't care about informed knife knuts, we just want people who don't know anything and are willing to pay our prices. Sure there is dribble here, but there's also a lot of great resources here and a lot of great people. I have also been a Gold member and plan to re-new my recently expired subscription here. So if they want to insult a site I support, F them.
 
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